Tue, 21 Jun, 15:13 Ben Walker : Looks awesome! Looking forward to checking it out at 4pm...

15 : 30 Dubber : Looks like we've got all the technology sorted. See you in half an hour...

15 : 50 solobasssteve : Have just watched Nick's provocation. Am excited to see where this leads. Some choice quotes in there

15 : 50 Dubber : That's cheating! We're all going to watch it together.

15 : 50 solobasssteve : it doesn't say that on the thingie!

15 : 51 Dubber : We're getting there - Rich is just making the cups of tea.

15 : 53 @_aka_hige : I just watched it too!

15 : 55 clutch : Boo-ya...

15 : 55 solobasssteve : aka_hige - I think we're now considered renegades

Mr Clutch!

15 : 55 warriorgrrl : It's all kicking off here, I will soon have coffee in hand http://www.flickr.com/photos/furryjumpergirl/sets/72157627013593252

15 : 55 Dubber : There'll be a pause in proceedings whole we all watch it together, so you'll get another chance to uncover its hidden depths.

 

15 : 55 solobasssteve : great

 

15 : 55 @_aka_hige : excellent

 

15 : 55 warriorgrrl : Hey Clutch! Hey Steve!

 

15 : 55 solobasssteve : I'm happy to watch again

 

15 : 55 @_aka_hige : Me too

 

15 : 55 solobasssteve : want to make note of some of the quotes

 

15 : 55 Dubber : Five minutes (oooh...)

 

15 : 56 @_aka_hige : I've got notes already!

 

15 : 56 warriorgrrl : dum dum duuuuuuum

 

15 : 56 clutch : How do all - great first vid from Nick.

 

15 : 56 Jam : woo how do i watch when its onn?

 

15 : 56 valeria : ey, Laura! ready to watch you from BA

 

15 : 56 Dubber : We're going to stream in the uStream channel. It'll go live soon and you just press play.

 

15 : 56 solobasssteve : magique  

15 : 56 Dubber : Then we'll chat and do an intro, and invite you to watch Nick's provocation with us.

And then we talk.

 

15 : 57 @_aka_hige : Sounds good

 

15 : 58 warriorgrrl : Hey Valeria! Just telling the guys here how ace you are

 

15 : 58 edsoundmill : Hello , what's the deal here?

 

15 : 59 valeria : warriorgrrl  

15 : 59 Dubber : Hi Ed - we're just about to start.You haven't missed anything.

 

15 : 59 edsoundmill : Cheers buddy

 

15 : 59 thehuxcapacitor : Nice to see you Ed. I'm sure you'll have interesting things to say.

 

16 : 00 edsoundmill : Hello mate.You know me the usual indie shtiK!

 

16 : 00 @_aka_hige : Yes loud and clear

 

16 : 01 Mike Chitty : sounds and looks just fine!

 

16 : 01 solobasssteve : hurrah!

 

16 : 01 edsoundmill : Advert!

 

16 : 02 solobasssteve : hi Mike!

 

16 : 03 nick : I wish I'd done my hair.

 

16 : 03 edsoundmill : Happy ti be in your house!

 

16 : 03 djalbertfreeman : What's happening now? I pressed play on ustream, watched an ad, and now a couple of mins of whiteness has followed.

 

16 : 03 Jam : yes rich! rich are you just going to stay there holding that.?

 

16 : 04 clutch : Is that Dubber's wobbly hand?

 

16 : 05 xander : @djalbertfreeman try refreshing your page and then clicking the big play button on ustream again (or watch the provocation first then do that)

 

16 : 05 warriorgrrl : Rich says yes

No it's Rich's  

16 : 05 clutch : Rich should have a quick dram

 

16 : 05 warriorgrrl : @clutch he thinks so too!

 

16 : 08 djalbertfreeman : @xander Thanks.

I refreshed, and now I've got it.

 

16 : 08 Julian : Hi people, Julian here from Georgia Wonder - thought I'd come and say hi!

 

16 : 09 warriorgrrl : Hi Julian!

 

16 : 09 edsoundmill : Liking the ideas

 

16 : 09 nick : I hope that video is on a loop, otherwise some poor sucker has a very tired arm.

 

16 : 10 edsoundmill : Rich has a strong right arms

 

16 : 10 warriorgrrl : @Nick, that poor sucker is @thehuxcapacitor - he's very focused.

 

16 : 11 clutch : @edsoundmill arms?

Is he Shiva when he's back in Leeds?

 

16 : 11 @_aka_hige : Excellent

 

16 : 11 Dubber : And we're back.

Turning sound on now.

 

16 : 11 @_aka_hige : Nice dubstyle!

 

16 : 11 solobasssteve : just watched it again!

 

16 : 11 clutch : Rewind!

 

16 : 11 Louis : And there you are!

 

16 : 11 solobasssteve : and took notes!

 

16 : 11 Julian : LAst time I saw him he was pissed in Berlin

 

16 : 12 edsoundmill : True.

I was signed to an indie that thought they were Sony. Bless 'em

 

16 : 14 @_aka_hige : Does anyone worry though that musicians will end up doing so much non-music things to actually make money?

 

16 : 14 solobasssteve : making the things that you yourself would buy sounds like a solid plan.

 

16 : 14 Julian : Me

 

16 : 14 Jam : ME

 

16 : 14 The Impossible Girl : Me, too

 

16 : 14 slow maker : Could you possibly do a quick recap of the "story so far" just joined in and I have a baby to look after too so time is of the essence for me. Sorry!!

 

16 : 15 nick : boirecords.co.uk for all your purchasing needs

 

16 : 15 Julian : This rest of this year is going to be about making more music

 

16 : 15 solobasssteve : Balance is the key. But it always was

 

16 : 15 nick : I have to say, aside from the record label I have also recently finished a degree and I have my own band. There is time.You can make time.

 

16 : 15 edsoundmill : Porfoliio career innit?

 

16 : 15 solobasssteve : I'd rather be able to make that balance for myself than have a label sending me out on a promo tour that is costing me a fortune and taking up way more time than screen printing would.

 

16 : 16 James D Clarke : Nowadays artists have to balance making music with marketing themselves, as opposed to with doing coke!

 

16 : 16 solobasssteve : ha!

 

16 : 16 Joe Joe Joe : You beat me to it JDC

 

16 : 16 Jam : Haha

 

16 : 16 Jamolah : Heh

 

16 : 16 Julian : I've already taken all the coke.

Now for the music.

 

16 : 16 solobasssteve : Kim, nice to see you here!

 

16 : 16 edsoundmill : I manage a band, run a studio and radio station.

It all feeds in.

 

16 : 16 The Impossible Girl : I followed your tweet

 

16 : 16 Joe Joe Joe : I was in bands in Brighton for several years.

.

.

the time spent scoring and smoking weed there could have built several careers.

 

16 : 16 solobasssteve :  

16 : 17 The Impossible Girl : Plus I have to brush up on my British for my BBC interview :P

 

16 : 17 solobasssteve : P

 

16 : 17 clutch : 1st contact band I was in had with "industry" was with hand-made CD sent to John Peel, who we knew (hoped) would be into it.

Played on R1 the following wk. - Helps to know your "market" insode out. Personal touch is what sets you apart...

 

16 : 17 Joe Joe Joe : indeed if the care put into rolling joints had been put into making CD covers, there'd be a world flooded with beautiful artifacts

 

16 : 17 Julian : Big difference between a band, a singer/songwriter and/or an artist with writers - fed up with people talking about 'everything' as if it all works the same

 

16 : 18 @_aka_hige : True, but music is also years and years of hard work and practice

 

16 : 18 clutch : As a musician/artist this should translate to live shows

 

16 : 18 edsoundmill : We got fans to be in the last video. They have been our biggest supporters since.

 

16 : 18 conniptions : Who's talking about 'everything' as if it all works the same?

 

16 : 18 @_aka_hige : I don't ask my plumber to do a bit of painting for free while he's here!

 

16 : 18 The Impossible Girl : Some people are amazing artists and not amazing promoters.If you aren't lucky enough to be both, too bad.

 

16 : 18 solobasssteve : Julian - that's true, in that a band can essentially be a team, but also requires bigger infrastructure

 

16 : 18 Julian : 'People' I'm talking generally about chatter around the web

 

16 : 19 Joe Joe Joe : I wrote this piece about "reinventing the album" i.e. people who turn them into artifacts: http://www.theartsdesk.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3590:reinventing-the-record-new-digital-formats&Itemid=29

 

16 : 19 solobasssteve : Kim - there's always a weighting in one direction or other - it used to be that ugly people weren't 'allowed' to release pop music. Being 'just' a musician has never been a route direct to 'success'.

 

16 : 19 edsoundmill : Wht gives musicians a god given right to be Millionaires?

 

16 : 19 The Impossible Girl : Yes, very true.

 

16 : 20 Julian : The Devil

 

16 : 20 Joe Joe Joe : And it shows the range, from flashy mass-produced toys / gimmicks to Sleeps In Oysters making literally homespun wool for their "homespun" folktronica

 

16 : 20 ianshepherd : The opportunity is to create a "web of attraction" that draws people in from lots of different angles

 

16 : 20 Louis : Personal touch doesn't have to set you apart, it just needs to add value to what you're already doing for the people who already know you're doing it (who are, one must hope, championing you elsewhere)

 

16 : 20 @_aka_hige : Like that Ian!

 

16 : 20 The Impossible Girl : And its always been about promoting yourself to someone - used to be A&R people at labels, now it's direct to fans

 

16 : 20 nick : Musicians who complain about not being able to afford to be a musician - get a job. If you love music as much as you say you do then you won't stop making music.

 

16 : 20 ianshepherd : @_aka_hige I can't take credit for the phrase

 

16 : 20 nick : (No musicians in here btw)

 

16 : 20 Julian : Agree about the bus stop

 

16 : 20 Tim continuum : Love the fact monto got slammed they suck balls!!

 

16 : 21 James D Clarke : Monto are a joke - ripping off bands big time these days...

 

16 : 21 Joe Joe Joe : Yes, Impossible Girl - bands have spent a lot of time and money "being in the right place", hanging out around the industry in the hope of A&Rs seeing them

 

16 : 21 edsoundmill : Interesting.

 

16 : 21 solobasssteve : Dubber, your point about not having a 'right', but instead having an opportunity is THE key.

 

16 : 21 Julian : You can spend too long along creating and vanish up your own bottom too...

 

16 : 21 Tim continuum : "I've got a gig that's right up your street...

"  

16 : 21 The Impossible Girl : Now "being in the right place" means being posted on the right blog

 

16 : 21 @_aka_hige : What's worse?

The entitlement of free music, or making money from music?

 

16 : 22 clutch : Sorry Nick, can be hard with family - for some more than others...

 

16 : 22 edsoundmill : A lot of bands think they should get it on a plate, the best ones graft

 

16 : 22 nick : @Steve there has never been so much opportunity than there is now

 

16 : 22 Mike Chitty : Same as ever - you need great products/services (fan experience) great marketing & sales and great financial mgt and controls - do the bits YOU love.

Get someone else to do the bits you hate...

 

16 : 22 Joe Joe Joe : that going on the dole thing is the "Brighton syndrome" I was talking about

 

16 : 22 Julian : Without personal drive and structure nothing will ever happen, doesn't matter what you do

 

16 : 23 solobasssteve : T-I-G, I'm not sure there is a 'right' place any more, in the 'big break' sense of things. I'm not sure it was ever there in the first place, but if it was, it's gone.

We connect with people one show at a time, these days. Build relationships, become meaningful to the people who listen to us...

 

16 : 23 nick : @clutch I appreciate that, I have a family and used to have a full time job, I still played music all the time.

I think the internet affords you the flexibilty NOT to have to give up everything for your music

 

16 : 23 @_aka_hige : Right on @Steve

 

16 : 23 slow maker : If I owned a sandwich shop I wouldn't care about what Mc'donalds was doing I would get on with the job of Making my customers happy with what I had to sell using all the skills I had to make a success of my business. If I just sat there making sandwiches all day and that was it I would just have a room full of unsold snacks and I would be broke.

 

16 : 24 Adam : Is it just me? But does anybody else see Soundcloud, itunes and the like just wrong? I mean, one of your pannel stated make things you would want to buy. Who the hell would want to buy an mp3? They are awful. Is the CD or the physical product dead? A lot of independent artists are not making the physical product and it is definitely demoralizing when, I am so into the idea of the physical product. I suppose my question is, is there still a market for the physical product from independent artists?

 

16 : 24 edsoundmill : I have a family, at home right now! And I'll be at work later. Flexibility. Love it

 

16 : 24 solobasssteve : how many musicians do you know who have ever taken music seriously as a 40 hour a week job in order to give themselves a chance? I've met a few, and all have done OK with music. The ones who worked a 12 hour week on music and played Playstation the rest of the time? Not so much...

 

16 : 24 Jamolah : Word, Steve!

 

16 : 25 Julian : I've worked professionally in many different disciplines as a muso, vive la difference

 

16 : 25 edsoundmill : You all type too fast!

 

16 : 25 conniptions : I've a couple of old songs that definitely went off. Don't play them any more

 

16 : 25 Mike Chitty : More passionate about playstation than music? Be a games tester who plays music for fun

 

16 : 25 @_aka_hige : @Steve Woah. Spot on there!

 

16 : 25 solobasssteve : Adam - there's room for both - digital lets you make things MUCH higher res than CD for less money. Bandcamp lets you upload at any quality (my last 3 albums are up there at 24bit), and Soundcloud accepts any format too (though it's not a sales platform anyway) same here, Julian - I've never been in a position to JUST play music. I really don't think I'd want to.

 

16 : 26 ianshepherd : Adam - offer both downloads and a physical option for people who want one ?

 

16 : 26 edsoundmill : I love bandcamp. Give people a chance to pay even if they don't.

 

16 : 26 @_aka_hige : You can use great products like the new program from Sonnox to make HiQ lossy audio files.

 

16 : 26 anthonyherron : One of my favourite case studies is Tim Fite. Brooklyn based artist, and one of the hardest I know. Although he's signed to Anti records (Tom Waits et al.), he releases free albums, has 2 jobs to support his art.

He currently has a year long experiment called "12 months rent", he's selling his art prints, 50 copies a month, at $25 to obviously help pay his rent so he can spend his other money made on touring, recording music. His announcement is here: http://ymlp.com/zkhm3v

He's also very good.

 

16 : 27 solobasssteve : I'm really looking forward to going back through the archive of this chat, to catch up on the bits I've missed

 

16 : 27 clutch : I'm stood here making food for my wife who's due home from work, and have to stop shortly to go pick up my son - a lot of my time is taken up at the moment - but is my output less valid due to less application through neccesity?

 

16 : 27 Mike Chitty : I suspect like most entrepreneurial endeavours - unless making music is something you HAVE to do to express who you are and be true to yourself - you should not choose to try and make a living from it. It is just too hard otherwise...

 

16 : 27 edsoundmill : Youve just got the centre of Rich's personality!

 

16 : 27 nick : @clutch No, totally my point.

 

16 : 28 Mike Chitty : The root of Passion is 'to suffer'. How much are you prepared 'to suffer' for your music? That is the measure of your passion...

 

16 : 28 edsoundmill : I said god given right to be a millionaire

 

16 : 28 Julian : FInd a market.

Create something for it. Make it cheaper than you sell it for.

 

16 : 28 solobasssteve : I would observe, anecdotally, that the indie non-full-time musicians I know release WAY more music than those who are stuck on big labels and beholden to the label's release schedule...

 

16 : 29 Julian : yoohoo

 

16 : 29 clutch : Sorry Mike, that's a bit extreme

 

16 : 29 calamateur : I make music because I feel like I have to. I've given up on the idea that I'll ever be able to support myself or my family by doing it, but as long as I get to spend some of my day/week being creative I feel like I'm a more rounded human being, which is far better thing for me than making money.

 

16 : 29 solobasssteve : there are some really smart people in here

 

16 : 29 nick : @Julian - Yes, yes, yes

 

16 : 29 solobasssteve : thank you all

 

16 : 29 edsoundmill : Bless Gary

 

16 : 29 Julian : HOWEVER I reserve the right to be arty farty and ignore my last remark ;P

 

16 : 30 Chris : Hi im Chris from Argentina!

 

16 : 30 edsoundmill : Best acoustic night in Leeds And he has a good beard

 

16 : 30 Mike Chitty : I will stand by it Clutch - unless you are prepared to put in the time, deal with the lows as well as the highs etc keep it as a hobby that earns a few quid - not a career.

 

16 : 31 solobasssteve : I'm in the middle of a 2 month tour in the US, sat in a friend's house in Nashville. FWIW

 

16 : 31 ianshepherd : Clutch, I agree it's really hard. Maybe the key is to not need the "success" NOW ? Keep making music quietly while family commitments need to be most important, and look for opportunities to expand it in future ?

 

16 : 31 solobasssteve : Mike - I don't think the opposite of a 'career' is a hobby - that's a false dichotomy.

 

16 : 31 edsoundmill : It's true as Gary contributes to the Leeds music scene in many ways.

 

16 : 32 Julian : Spend 5 years bubbling under on a major until they decide to make you a featured artist then pay it back over the next 5 years - or spend five years investing your time - both are a monetary committment considering you could have got a job in the city instead and leave rock and roll behind

 

16 : 32 edsoundmill : I run a studio and it's true the value of recording has dropped massively

 

16 : 32 clutch : Not particularly after success. Mike, you're suggesting I should focus exclusively, aqnd neglect family? Any other top tips?

 

16 : 32 Joe Joe Joe : Yes contributing to scene around you is part of the sense of achievement, we must remember that... I was being flippant earlier about Brighton people, but I do know that for some, the community building was (and is) as important to them as "expressing themselves"

 

16 : 32 edsoundmill : It's hard and we are having to change.

 

16 : 33 nick : The guy who recorded our last record charged £350 for 4 days including mix and master and it sounded incredible. He'd rather charge that and work every day than charge £250 a day and sit around doing nothing for most of the week

 

16 : 33 Julian : I can't see Mastadon's latest album being done on anything but a major, some stuff needs that kind of muscle

 

16 : 33 slow maker : I went through years of trying to say the right thing to the right people (through gritted teeth usually) to try and "Make it" or at least make something as a musician. I soon gave up on that, and since then have been playing working traveling for my own pleasure, I have had to do many other jobs during this period in my life, but I am still playing music and gaining more and more respect as an artist. the long and the short of it I guess is I don't make a great living from what I do, but I make a great life.

 

16 : 33 edsoundmill : Trying to make a living is tough.

 

16 : 33 James D Clarke : End of the day, everyone in the industry has to diversify what they do... you have to adapt and be able to provide multiple services... jack of all trades, master of a few?

 

16 : 33 Joe Joe Joe : but that community building is not just idealistic, as you see from some of the organisations that are coming out of "the dubstep generation"

 

16 : 33 John Mostyn : Ed me too. We hold conferences in our studio too

 

16 : 33 solobasssteve : Julian - why? because of the promo, or the recording? There are ways of funding big projects without being beholden to the majors...

 

16 : 34 edsoundmill : Bless Odlem

 

16 : 34 Mike Chitty : when you choose to turn the thing you love (shorthand = hobby) into the thing that will pay your bills and become your vocation (shorthand = career) it changes your relationship to it. Your passion -in the sense of preparedness to put up with suffering - will be tested...

 

16 : 34 Alan Raw : As Nick says in the video; it is important to know who you are what you do and what your product is. He also recommends you have a portfolio business. Although I agree, I'd like to know if he finds that having a portfolio style business can draw you away from knowing who you are and can it dilute your identity.

 

16 : 34 ianshepherd : Clutch, that's why I used the inverted commas - the question was whether there was time to make money, have a job etc etc, I'm agreeing the answer is No, especially with a young family, but that doesn't mean it will always be impossible.?

 

16 : 34 nick : I hope the dog throwing up wasn't a review of the video.

 

16 : 34 Julian : I'd like to see metal label / promoters in a room with people from PopJustice etc - they could all learn a lot from each other

 

16 : 34 rob : Whats the name of that business? The recording studio that collaborates with aetistrs?

 

16 : 34 edsoundmill : People book us not the studio but that can sometimes be problamatic too.

 

16 : 35 Chris : I think that we musicians should find other ways to monetizes

 

16 : 35 nick : Alan, we include our identity in everything we do - our CD duplication will reflect the process in which we make our own products. That way we stay focussed. If you consider your business an extension of your personality then you won't lose identity

 

16 : 35 Dubber : Name of the studio is Vibewrangler - Hamilton, ON

 

16 : 35 edsoundmill : Me too Rich

 

16 : 36 rob : Thanks Dubber, appreciated, enjoying the session

 

16 : 36 Julian : Question: Could you become as big as Adele, from scratch, within that time frame? (If so who has) - are the millions only available to the majors or is this in people's grasp but has yet to happen?

 

16 : 36 solobasssteve : video has locked up... Mike - broadly, you've got a point, but there are still way more orientations to 'art' than just 'career' and 'hobby'. The short-hand robs us of the nuance of what happens in the middle.

 

16 : 36 James D Clarke : video ok here (UK)

 

16 : 36 solobasssteve : Julian - millions of what? pounds or listeners?

 

16 : 36 Julian : both

 

16 : 36 Howlin' Hobbit : @Chris: other ways to monetize include busking. but it's like consoling a widow, there's only one real way, but remember the risks.

 

16 : 37 solobasssteve : Adele is a lottery winner.

 

16 : 37 Julian : (rhetorical)

 

16 : 37 edsoundmill : Yes bands do want things done for them and the idea of label is very appealing, but the truth is very different.

 

16 : 37 solobasssteve : there are lotteries on line as there are in the mainstream music industry

 

16 : 37 Mike Chitty : I think most artists/makers are pretty poor at 'monetizing'. They undervalue product (generalising horribly). To make real money they often have to partner with someone who is as passionate and expert about 'monetisation' as they are about making

 

16 : 37 nick : @steve you don't have to pay tax on the lottery, Adele would love that

 

16 : 37 edsoundmill : The problem is that people thinks is expensive is good. I don't think so.

 

16 : 38 Chris : @Howlin' Hobbit : yup its true

 

16 : 38 solobasssteve : the labels spend more than they make, and all we see is the 'stardom'. Somewhere down the line, 12 people make millions. While thousands are in debt.

 

16 : 38 Julian : I think good is good.

 

16 : 38 edsoundmill : Listen to Hope & Social.

 

16 : 38 rob : You mentioned making an album for £20.000, agreed thats a lot of money, but surely you cant really record a half decent album for less than £5-7,000?

 

16 : 38 Julian : XL have their shit together

 

16 : 38 Mike Chitty : they need someone who has spent as much time learning about marketing, sales and financial management as the musician has spent learning music - and to collaborate with them.

 

16 : 38 edsoundmill : Indie label XL

 

16 : 38 rob : Whats your view on Bella Union?

 

16 : 38 Lykle : So what does a label bring you? I think a good label can bring two things: organisational power (saves you work) and gatekeeper-like creds (They signed you, you must be great because of all the other artists they signed). That's it.

 

16 : 39 matybigfro : from what I understand XL, adele's label only sign one or two artists a year

 

16 : 39 edsoundmill : Good.

 

16 : 39 conniptions : I think you can, rob. I like to think I just did

 

16 : 39 nick : @Rob I made a freaking great record for less than £500 - if you do your research and build relationships then costs don't need to be huge

 

16 : 39 edsoundmill : Bella have supported lots of small artists

 

16 : 39 Julian : also XL has good managers

 

16 : 39 solobasssteve : Rob - I could list 20 records off the top of my head that cost nothing like that much.

 

16 : 39 Howlin' Hobbit : @rob, my band (Snake Suspenderz) recorded a quite decent CD for nothing but the mechanical license fee for our one cover tune.

 

16 : 39 Louis : The one thing our record label aims to do is provide a context. All art is made more interesting by context. The artists on the label influence each other and support each other. Context also makes it easier to promote/sell to whatever market you're aiming at. It gives the whole thing a sense of narrative too.

 

16 : 39 solobasssteve : 20 GREAT records.

 

16 : 39 Chris : @Mike Chitty: I couldn't agree more.

 

16 : 40 djalbertfreeman : Mike - I agree as that 'some' products are undervalued by the artists who make them, but it has to be acknowledged that the recording itself has no monetary value in the digital age.

 

16 : 40 edsoundmill : Bollocks. You can record a good album for cheap as.

 

16 : 40 Julian : Our new stuff is costing nothing, done in the music shop (yes, we're getting back on to that one)

 

16 : 40 edsoundmill : Rubbisg

 

16 : 40 ianshepherd : It was GREAT !! is

 

16 : 40 Mike Chitty : sounds like musicians need to re-negotiate the relationship with labels/managers - I suspect many of whom are stuck in the 1990s

 

16 : 40 Chris : The market is changing

 

16 : 40 Howlin' Hobbit : what edsoundmill said!

 

16 : 40 Julian : Your recording needs to be COMPETETIVE that is all

 

16 : 41 Mike Chitty : I dont agree that digital stuff has no value on tinterweb.

 

16 : 41 solobasssteve : Julian - competitive with who?

 

16 : 41 Julian : with other recordings it needs to be 'good enough'

 

16 : 41 edsoundmill : We charge £140 a day and make shit hot records!!!!!!!!

 

16 : 41 Chris : with itunes and now icloud things gona change

 

16 : 41 rob : @edsoundmill, what mixing desk do you have??

 

16 : 41 clutch : Our demos for album cost £400 - Simon Williams heard it and said "best thing I've heard since Coldplay" *vomits* - but sufficiently impressed him to license it and put it out as actual album. Recording is CHEAP!!!

 

16 : 41 Julian : (whatever that means)

 

16 : 42 nick : I genuinely wouldn't know where to spend £20,000 on a record. Crack, I assume.

 

16 : 42 matybigfro : Jimmy Eat World recorded their breakthrough album bleed American in the drummers garage on computer after being kicked off their label, that was almost ten years ago

 

16 : 42 edsoundmill : @ Rob Control 24

 

16 : 42 rob : @edsoundmill thanks mate

 

16 : 42 Joe Joe Joe : A lot of the majors outsource more and more, so an artist can have very independent team around them

 

16 : 42 Mike Chitty : I could download Hope and Social Stuff for free (in the ealry days I did). I now pay over the odds because I want to support them.

I am not paying for the MP3. I am paying for the H&S project to continue.

 

16 : 42 Julian : If you want real strings, a horn section etc on your stuff simply because that's the kind of music you make, you have a different set of problems to dance

 

16 : 42 slow maker : Mike Chitty this is true, The new artists need to learn to work together through all aspects of what it takes to be successful Adeles case in point should be the new Curriculum taught in new music colleges rather than everyone trying to rip each other off of outdo the person next to them. there is a big society of artists who are reticent to help one another, as a leg up to one artist may put anothers chances out the window

 

16 : 42 edsoundmill : Not really a mix desk.

 

16 : 42 Julian : <  

16 : 42 @_aka_hige : Right on @Dobber

 

16 : 43 Joe Joe Joe : look at Katy B - in terms of her music, image, and UK work, she and Rinse have complete control, but Sony look after "bigger picture" stuff

 

16 : 43 Chris : you can record on your own. with the current technology and a good operator, you can get a good home album

 

16 : 43 Joe Joe Joe : so she's in effect signed to a major and an indie (one run by her friends and musical partners) at the same time

 

16 : 43 James D Clarke : @matybigfro And licensed to a major - the rest is history! Great example of a band who relied on label a little as possible & have survived label changes because of this - indie values, signed to a major.

 

16 : 44 edsoundmill : Want strings? Keiran O'Malley

 

16 : 44 Julian : My track Destroy was all done on computers - to record this properly (and more stuff like that) would be impossible - so here's the problem - I won't be doing more of that stuff

 

16 : 44 Mike Chitty : Good rule for entrepreneurs/musicians: start from where you are: work with what you have got/can afford.

 

16 : 44 clutch : Indeed Rich, like yer good man Mr Goff.

 

16 : 44 slow maker : Didn't Norah Jones pay some great Jazz session players and record her debut for around 10,000 dollars?

 

16 : 44 Julian : HAHAHA

 

16 : 44 edsoundmill : Make them part of the family.

 

16 : 44 ianshepherd : Company who specialise in more affordable orchestral recordings: http://www.tadlowmusic.com/ Or get friends to help

 

16 : 44 nick : Totally agree with Rich - do cool stuff and people will want to get involved.

EVERYONE involved in the mix tape project donated their time and resources for free

 

16 : 44 Julian : helkps if your dad is ravi shankar

 

16 : 44 djalbertfreeman : MIke - your stance admirable, but recordings online have whatever value the listener chooses to give it, and not every listener is like you. The She Makes War model is the way to go - give something to people who want to pay more and support the artist, while ackowledging the fact that if the listener wants it for free, they'll get it.

 

16 : 44 ianshepherd : Also http://www.realstrings.com/

 

16 : 44 clutch : Massive hippy - like 'The Dude'?

 

16 : 45 edsoundmill : Me and Rich have passed work around each other, networks create econemy

 

16 : 45 Julian : The question is - can you get across what you want to acheive artistically? There are always compromises. If you don't like the sound of it, don't release it.

 

16 : 45 slow maker : Nepatism aside this is how it happened right?

 

16 : 45 Mike Chitty : You are spot on there Albert - whatever value we choose to give.

 

16 : 45 Julian : Not that I know of

 

16 : 46 Chris : If you are competitive, you will live from music

 

16 : 46 ianshepherd : Luck is preparation meeting opportunity

 

16 : 46 matybigfro : ianshepherd - on the money there

 

16 : 46 solobasssteve : A culture of reciprochal altruism exists in many parts of the music world. We help eachother for way below 'market value' knowing that we all do well when the music scene is healthier. I've done a lot of favours and called in a lot of favours. So many things happen at the intersection of flexibility and serendipity.

 

16 : 46 edsoundmill : I wouldn't mind being a bit rich!

 

16 : 46 Julian : You are competetive. If you weren't I wouldn't be watching this slipping videothingy.

 

16 : 47 edsoundmill : Play sqush with him

 

16 : 47 Chris : haha

 

16 : 47 Julian : The people who aren't competetive aren't in this vid or in this chat room!

 

16 : 47 Mike Chitty : work out whether you are making a life or making a killing. Doing both is a very rare feat.

 

16 : 47 Howlin' Hobbit : ask your friends... right! hell, y'all want a ukulele part on your recording? I'll do it for a) a couple copies of the CD... b) acknowledgement, and c) the kick of being on your recording.

 

16 : 47 Joe Joe Joe : I've been talking a lot to people organising festivals like Bloc, Green Man, Sónar etc... these began as labours of love and wanting to support "their kind of music", their musician friends etc

 

16 : 48 edsoundmill : Bringing young bands together really works. Rich and I have done that with young bands and they have ended up doing gigs together.

 

16 : 48 Joe Joe Joe : and all are now to one degree or another big business

 

16 : 48 Mike Chitty : this mutual reinforcement of each other is spot on - sending fans to other bands, other concerts is the way to build loyalty

 

16 : 48 nick : I think it's sad that Rich and Ed's approach to helping young artists seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

 

16 : 48 Mike Chitty : this is the hallmark of the enterprising community

 

16 : 49 edsoundmill : I think things are changing.

 

16 : 49 Joe Joe Joe : same with a club like FWD>> - because it has built artists' careers, someone like Skream, who can command 5 figures for a DJ set in some part of the world, will play there for peanuts still

 

16 : 49 Chris : i think we can separate 2 kinds of people, one that wants to live from music, and must be competitive for survive, and others that look music more as an personal art, if you are one of thouse, start looking for a job!

 

16 : 49 The Creeks : Things are definitely changing - and about time!

 

16 : 49 solobasssteve : this has been an excellent discussion. Thank you, clever people.

 

16 : 49 edsoundmill : Ineed

 

16 : 49 J.P. Kallio : Being a musician needs to be a life style. You have good times and bad times. You need to be smart with your money. If you always want to have the newest and best gear, I bet you will struggle to make the ends meet. If you get in to music because of the money, you are wasting time. But if you work really hard and get good at it, you can get by.

 

16 : 49 Edward Feery : This has been a fascinating discussion - I just wish I'd been quick enough to contribute!

 

16 : 49 Howlin' Hobbit : I think that we're supposed to help each other. I'm pretty sure that's in the "life rule book"

 

16 : 50 Chris : And you guys, are in ingland england*

 

16 : 50 solobasssteve : We're back here at 8pm UK time, talking about 'making friends with fans'.

 

16 : 50 Chris : imagine a place like Argentina

 

16 : 50 Mike Chitty : Good work! Best webinar type thing I have been in!

 

16 : 50 Chris : we dont even have a strong music Industry circuit

 

16 : 50 Jam : Foo fighters have been putting cuts of the original master tape in their CDs They cut it into a million pieces :p

 

16 : 50 nick : This has been really cool. Thanks everyone, hope I made at least some sense! I've learned I should definitely get a haircut

 

16 : 50 rob : Thanks guys, you;ve been great

 

16 : 50 @_aka_hige : Thanks guys! Catch you later!

 

16 : 51 edsoundmill : Lots of fun

 

16 : 51 Chris : this was great great!

 

16 : 51 Louis : Cheers folks!

 

16 : 51 The Creeks : We released our album for free recently, lots of bands are doing that. People generally expect unsigned bands to play for free now too.

We don't mind that! Thanks for chatting and listening rock out! The Creeks

 

16 : 51 calamateur : Thanks everyone

 

16 : 51 matybigfro : Great stuff

 

16 : 51 Chris : thanks from Argentina!

 

16 : 51 The Creeks : www.thecreeks.co.uk

 

16 : 51 Chris : (L (:

 

16 : 51 Alan Raw : Really enjoyed that, very informative. Thank's

 

16 : 51 Damn : Maybe more focussed next time?

 

16 : 51 Jam : THANK YOU!

 

16 : 51 clutch : Thanks all.

 

16 : 51 Jake Dubber : Enjoyed that.

 

16 : 52 edsoundmill : @Alan Raw book the Finnlys for an acoustic session!

 

16 : 52 J.P. Kallio : Good stuff. Thanks

 

16 : 52 Howlin' Hobbit : wish I'd gotten here a bit earlier. hard to follow the chat and the vid at the same time, but luckily I'm quite used to being confused! thanks, all!

 

16 : 52 Dubber : Thanks so much guys - really great content. Wish I could have brought more of the chatroom content into the live chat.

 

16 : 52 Adam : A fantastic debate on both the stream and the chat room. See you guys at 8pm for the next one! Boom

 

16 : 53 edsoundmill : Really good

 

16 : 53 @_aka_hige : @Dubber - This chat is going to be archived right?

 

16 : 53 solobasssteve : hige - I've cut 'n' pasted everything so far.

 

16 : 53 Dubber : And thanks Nick for a fantastic provocation. Really looking forward to Nancy Baym's talk about making friends with fans in three hours time.

 

16 : 53 @_aka_hige : @Steve Nice one!

 

16 : 53 Dubber : And the chat will be archived and kept here on New Music Strategies. Along with the video content, the provocation, and all of the #ampnms tweets.

 

16 : 58 James D Clarke : Not sure if anyone mentioned this - but for future broadcasts it would be great to see the names of speakers on the webpage above/below the Ustream embed -- I joined after the start and wasn't sure who was who!

 

16 : 58 solobasssteve : good point, James, thanks

 

16 : 58 slow maker : Agreed James D Clarke I felt the same

 

16 : 59 @_aka_hige : Who's along side you at 8pm @Steve? Nancy Baym and?

 

16 : 59 edsoundmill : Going to miss tonights but I hope it's as good as this.

 

17 : 00 thehuxcapacitor : Thanks so much for all your wise words and input. Fantastic stuff in here.

;o)  

17 : 01 solobasssteve : hige - Kira Small (nashville singer/songwriter and soul singer) and Stephen Mason (guitarist with Jars Of Clay)

 

17 : 01 slow maker : I know no one is here now, but i just wanted the last word on the subject. luckily we are all different which makes this industry as colourful as it is, I hope as many people keep doing what they love doing and hopefully great things will come for us all.....You want Fries with that?

Andrew Dubber, Laura Kidd and Rich Huxley talked about Music & Enterprise


Provocation

Nick Moreton from UK independent label Brave or Invincible Records talks about music entrepreneurship and sustainability.