I get an awful lot of email, and I dispense with it quickly. Things are either “To do” (so they go into my “to do” system), or they are “For information”, so I file them appropriately – or they are Junk.
If I receive unsolicited email from a band promoting a gig or a record – then, like all spam, it gets filtered and I never hear from them again no matter what they send.
In this shorthand sorting system, sometimes I fire off responses a little too quickly and casually. Tonight I made a hasty mistake that I feel bad about and I apologise unreservedly to the band in question.
CC’d emails irritate the hell out of me. It means that my email address has gone to hundreds of people who will undoubtedly now start adding me to their own mailing lists, and the spam problem will just get worse. So when I received one today from a band, I hit the “Reply All” button and fired off the following response:
Hi XXXXXXXX (and all of XXXXXXXX’s internet contacts),
Rule #2 of sending out bulk promotional emails is to always put the email addresses into the BCC field, rather than the CC field. That way nobody’s email address gets revealed to all the other people the message was sent to. You’ve just added everyone here to everyone else’s mailing list. [Note: please don't do this, everyone - it's bad form].
Better yet, you might want to use an opt-in mailing list provider such as Aweber (http://aweber.com)
Rule #1 of course, is to ask permission first. I don’t recall signing up to your mailing list, and so you automatically go into my blocked senders file, never to be heard from again. Shame. I’m sure your music is very good, and now I’ll probably never hear it – and I’ll almost certainly never write about it.
But in the interests of trying to be helpful, here are a couple of articles I’ve written on the topic that may be of some use:
http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/30/whats-the-best-way-to-manage-a-fan-list/
http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/02/22/sometimes-it-works/All the best of luck with the release all the same.
Cheers,
Andrew Dubber
New Music Strategieshttp://newmusicstrategies.com
Now, you and I may know that I was trying to be helpful (I was, honest), while trying to stomp on what are really quite serious internet practices. But actually, I just came across as unnecessarily mean. Not my intention, but that’s not the point. I potentially humiliated them in front of their friends and contacts. Which is just unpleasant, and I wish I could take it back.
So this is my apology to them. They know who they are. Sorry guys.
I hope, at least, that through me being the bad guy, they’ll get another shot at doing this sort of communication properly. That their contacts block me instead of them, and they get the sympathy vote that’ll let them off the hook on what I think was a genuine newbie mistake and not a horrendous internet gaffe.
My usual reaction is simply to ‘block sender’ so that I never hear from them again – but this time I took the unusual step of responding – and doing so publicly. If the band wishes to identify themselves here, they have my permission to post the information about their forthcoming CD single (no – not everyone, just them) in the comments below.
They may wish to see how sympathetic the comments are before they choose to do so. I don’t want to be responsible for reprimanding them in public twice – but it seems a fair way to make amends with what I have.
How do you deal with unwanted emails? What about the ones that send your contact details to hundreds of people? What should I have done in this instance?
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33 Comments
I never reply to unsolicited CCs.
They are devaluing their brand(s) as everyone will dismiss their missives as junk.
I have enough email of my own to clear! If someone takes the trouble to email me directly I will respond. It’s a meaningful communication in that case.
That said, I have sent the odd accidental CC which should have been a BCC. I’m blaming Thunderbird email client, which should really default to BCC unless explicitly selected (as should other email clients). There’s probably a plug-in for it…
IMO it’s better to reply to the artist alone rather than everyone on the CC list. Give them a chance to learn from the mistake.
As an artist I sometimes keep unsolicited emails from other artists to study how they do mailings — and/or steal their ideas :)
But more often than not I end up trashing them. A “perfect storm” example: I band I met at SXSW added me to their list unbidden, then proceeded to send me 2-3 emails per week, inviting me to shows thousands of miles from where I lived, begging me to call radio stations, and once asking me to call a venue and complain about a cancelled show on their behalf.
There was no unsubscribe link, and my requests to be removed went unanswered. So I just blocked the address so it gets auto-trashed. For all I know they’re still emailing me…
It’s obvious when a band doesn’t give a whit about the person at the receiving end.
Wow, Dubber. If your email response is what you consider ‘mean’ then you are perhaps one of the politest and nicest mean people I’ve ever come across.
CC’ing mass email addresses is like handing out someone’s private phone number to crowds of complete strangers. Terribly inconsiderate.
I personally think that you are justified in mass emailing everyone with that response. How many other people were on that same email list, thinking the same thing, and didn’t say anything? Those people are probably all thanking you for speaking up.
No definitive answer from me on this one. I tend to do it on a case-by-case basis.
Regarding what you did here I think it’s an example of a culture clash, or a disagreement on how these tools are to be used. You have certain rules on how email works (which, I might add, are way stricter than anyone else I know) and others won’t share them. For some people unsolicited cc-ed emails are acceptable and a good thing. It’s not necessarily that they need educating, more that they’ve made an informed decision. Sure, they’re “wrong” and annoying but from where they come from it’s all good.
Another example. People who embed auto-playing media in their MySpace profiles and make them unreadable with excessive customisation aren’t doing it because they need help. They do it because they think it works for them. Sure, I’m not going to go anywhere near them or their work but that’s the trade-off.
Finally, I was thinking the other day that spam filtering, especially on Gmail, has got to the stage where having your email spread about the place isn’t such a problem anymore, unless you get a lot of false positives.
I think you did wrong and are right to apologise, but that’s more to do with your zero tolerance attitude to email abuse than anything else. Chill out, enjoy the chaos a bit and carry on filtering.
(Hey, you did ask for my opinion!)
CCing is one of my peeves too (not a pet because I love all my peeves). You weren’t crazy harsh, although Replying All may have been a little over the top. I don’t block anybody on my email but I don’t get a lot of unsolicited stuff like you.
It is really unforgivable to put somebody on a list without permission though, especially if they’re not going to send things out in a professional manner.
Don’t apologize. You did the right thing. I’ve done the same before too. It drives me crazy not because i believe my email address is some sort of private thing to protect, but because it shows a total lack of professionalism and makes it completely obvious it’s not an actual mailing list service/app but some dork in outlook imitating one.
If we don’t call these people out why would it ever stop?
Your reply was way nicer than I would be.
That was actually a rather polite and helpful email response. A one or two sentance reply with some cuss words would have been much worse (but expected). I hate when my fellow musicians throw themselves at people without consent, that makes them no better than spammers. If you like my kind of music, you will find it. If you want my music, I’ll make it available to you. If you ask to hear my type of music, you better bet I’ll play it for you, but if you’re just sitting there, I gain nothing from shoving my music in your face. Your reply was perfect and I think no appology is necessary.
Thanks, all.
I do have a couple of fairly angry responses from people on that list saying “Leave them alone”, “You’re mean” and “If I ever hear from you again, I’ll report you as a spammer” etc.
I asked for Pete Ashton’s response here because he is one of the leading experts on social media, he’s local, helpful and totally understands ‘creatives’. I trust what he has to say about matters such as this, and you should totally go to his website.
Pete’s right – my rules about this are not everyone’s – and that’s where the culture clash has come from.
Using Gmail’s “Filter messages like this” feature, I now have over 600 email addresses that automatically hit my trash, not to mention certain keywords and phrases. This is over and above Gmail’s very good spam filter.
My email address is freely available online – and I don’t bother with writing things like dubber [AT] gmail [DOT] com. I even happily hotlink it. Like this: you can email me. I want people to get in touch with me and have genuine conversations.
But I do have expectations about how people should treat that, and I’m pretty merciless when it’s abused. Just not usually quite so publicly. You can send me one spam message. I’ll read it just enough to decide that’s what it is – and then you’ll never be able to send me email again.
If you’re sending me e-flyers, unsolicited gig announcements or press releases, chances are I’m not seeing them. And I bet I’m not the only one.
But far worse than the occasional spam message is rudeness. And while I framed it as ‘helpful’, what I did was still rude. I felt bad about it. I’ve apologised. The band’s now got back in touch and said ‘No problem – our mistake’ – which is nice of them.
All is, generally speaking, well.
Chilling out, enjoying the chaos, and continuing to heavily filter my email input.
Andrew,
I read your stuff in my newsreader, but i have to say that this bit about your affiliatie friend starts to irritate. I read all your posts, so i get the same info all the time. Now i’m looking at the website it’s not here. Why do you punish us rss-readers ? I love New Music Strategies, but this can be better ;-)
Apologies to you too, Erwin. I’d meant to take that out after three appearances. I think it’s been four now. My impromptu apology post ahead of schedule got him an extra push.
Not punishing the RSS readers deliberately. Allow me to make amends by putting the link here on the standard old blog (just this once), and removing it from the RSS footer.
___________________________________
The offending ad:
A colleague of mine has just launched a new e-Book, and it’s pretty damn good.
Jack Chapman has taken questions from musicians and has put them to music industry experts. The result is both a comprehensive survey of the issues facing musicians and the music industry today – and a great insight into the ways of the music business. Some pretty handy, easily applicable tools and strategies in there too. I recommend it.
Buy: Jack Chapman’s Big Music Survey
Note: that’s an affiliate link. Jack’s giving me back a little something if I send any business his way. Fair enough.
___________________________________
There – balance restored.
No problems! It must be a good read! ;-)
I think you absolutely did the right thing – if this band, or other bands employing the same tactics, are looking to make genuine and useful contacts in the music industry, they’re going about it the wrong way and rubbing a lot of people up the wrong way in the process.
I used to work for one indie label, and own another. In both cases the level of unsolicited email we received from bands was very high. Most of this got immediately trashed because I was just too damn busy to click on links to The Neverheardof’s website, seek out their music, read up on them and give them the support they were asking of me – if I’d actively responded to all such messages, I wouldn’t have had time to do the rest of my job, or have a life outside of work. Email is not a good medium by which to introduce yourself to potential industry contacts – gig, network, send a demo in the post even (but for god’s sake don’t phone up/email and hassle us to listen to it a week after sending, because it WILL go in the bin). But unsolicited email is spam, by any other name.
CCing is even worse, and a cardinal sin as far as I’m concerned. I can forgive it of internet novices but I’ve known people to CC large swathes of people into promotional emails just to make themselves look popular/important. And, like you say, it just means you’ll have to field even more of those unwelcome promo mails from bands/artists who don’t know anything about you other than you work in the music industry and therefore they want to be your friend.
Your reply is on the milder side of what I would have put ;)
Forgot to add – but I think it was very gracious of you to apologise. I hope the band in question learn some useful tips from the links you sent them, and this website as a whole.
Hi Andrew,
I feel exactly the same way about the multiple CC’s thing. It’s not cool and slightly archaic in Internet style.
I just thought I’d mention, though I’m sure you’re aware of the fact that when you post your e-mail address as you do you increase the amount of spam you’ll receive because automated bots can actually pick up the address with crawls (for real spammers). You may want to simply post a link to a contact form and then respond via e-mail. This eliminates at least automated “viagra viagra” type spam to some degree.
I think these guys are well intentioned though they are basically spamming and need to be told that. Their “mailing list subscribers”, just like you, will feel slightly upset though at receiving unsolicited messages, educational as it may be. ;-)
Still, I’m glad a few hundred (or thousands?) of people in this world are at least aware that CC’ing like that is bad style and goes against a persons privacy rights.
Marius
I have pretty simple rules for unsolicited email.
1. If it’s addressed to my name or company name in a personal manner I’ll check it out and reply if appropriate.
2. If it’s addressed to my name or company but not in a personal manner I may check it out if I have time but probably won’t reply or follow up.
3. If it’s not addressed to myself or my company and is obviously a bulk send I generally delete and block it.
It’s always dependent on time and energy constraints, but those are the guidelines for me.
As for CCs, I don’t blame you for reacting. I feel your pain though, it’s easy to fire off email in the heat of passion.
I go about it two ways.
Sometimes I contact the site. I’ve found a few great music blogs in the post on your site. A lot of them I’ve contacted asking them if I could possibly send them press releases. I haven’t received a negative reply yet.
Then other times when there contact information on a site that says submissions or whatever, I’ll add them to my press mailing lists (no cc’s).
I guard my press mailing lists very closely and I don’t send out releases everytime I breathe. Heck, it’s been a year since my last album came out, so it’s been a year (till a week ago) since I’ve sent out a press releases clearly marked with the subject line “For Immediate Release.”
I presume that I have handled my correspondences to you modestly and properly.
I think your initial “Reaction” was fairly warranted considering the hell that e-mail management can be. Notice the emphasis on the word “Reaction”. What I am sincerely impressed with is your thoughtfulness almost immediately after the um, incident(?).
That is classy, mature and helpful. Very respectable qualities to have. OK, enough ass-kissing.
I think you did right all the way around. You were solicited, you responded, YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT, and then you took steps to clarify any misunderstandings.
You just might be the nicest, polite mean person, who knows? I look forward to having something of substance to send along to you in anticipation of such critical response.
Milton
PS – Why have I not heard about that Chapman fellows e-book? No RSS subscription maybe? Have not applied myself to messing with those yet. (I know; My Loss).
I, too, agree that CC’ing private emails is totally unacceptable. But, Andrew, writing back to everyone on the list? Haha. You burned them pretty bad. Sounds like you have a lot of stored up frustration about how people use email, and the band in question sent the straw email that – bad luck for them – broke the camel’s proverbial back.
I’m with you on your principles as to how email should be used in a spam-infested age, but I’m not sure the band deserved your heavy-handed reproach. Perhaps it would be a different story if it had been a promotions company or agency – meaning, someone who 100% should have known better.
As it stands, though, I have to admit that a public apology from you is a rare and wonderful example of a good person admitting that they made a bad judgment call. Thanks for using your story as an example to remind all of us to be extra-cautious about using BCC when sending out our mailing lists.
Ha. Now… more importantly :)… is it ok if I send you an email when I’ve released my new album, as long as I don’t CC your address, or will that elicit thoughts of murder and doom? :)
Hope you’re well, bud. Always great to read about your life and ideas!
-Mark (www.theenrighthouse.com)
Mark,
If you’re a band and you’re using the net to promote yourself then you kinda are a promotions company.
Of course, we’re all learning but it’s 2008, we ALL should know better.
Hey Felix,
I suppose you are right about there being little difference between most self-promoting bands and a group of individuals who promote on your behalf in exchange for money. Everyone should understand the difference between CC and BCC by now, and which is the appropriate method to use in any given situation.
However, be that as it may, I am not totally convinced the offense warrants the response. It just struck me as a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, is all.
I think – and I am speaking in general terms now, i.e. no longer with Andrew’s incident in mind – it’s psychologically easy to categorize anonymous people who make mistakes as less intelligent or more inconsiderate than they might in all actuality be. And that unwillingness to give people the benefit of the doubt can often lead to an inflated urge to act self-righteously.
It is, thus, not uncommon for people to fire off angry responses with full confidence that the offending person has warranted one’s reaction. However, from my experience, almost as soon as that offending person responds, and you realize that you are dealing with a real person, who might well have had genuine motives, you almost immediately feel rotten for your own lack of moderation.
I just think it makes a tad more sense to add that extra step of confirming, perhaps via personal contact, that one’s response is really proportional to the incident. Had Andrew sent them a personal note along the lines of the one he made public, and the band would have responded in a way that suggested to Andrew that they were really in need of a more severe lesson, then I would say go for it.
Ultimately, the story is always the same: a lot of artist’s actions are informed by a slight sense of desperation, and the recipient is usually somewhat grateful to be in a position of power. The former leads to bad judgment, the latter, too.
-Mark (www.theenrighthouse.com)
Mark I agree entirely.
email is so instant, you can respond right away when something has you wound up – the worst time to be responding.
Andrew’s 1st reaction (firing off a BIG lesson) and 2nd effort (a more thoughtful one,) are both understandable, and acceptable IMO. People screw up, it’s part of life. Why suffer fools gladly? Sometimes humans over-react. It’s not surprising, or evil, and not exactly mean-spirited either. Dubber also showed compassion by being willing to offer up accountability for his actions. This isn’t a big deal.
Flame wars happen even when both parties are making a concerted effort NOT to over-react.
The written word almost always has more than one possible interpretation. One of the best and most wonderful things about inappropriate behavior or arguments is that a deeper level of communication happens as a result of both parties making an effort to understand each other clearly. It happened in this case. This little squirt of emotion, is actually having a positive effect on the world. Some of my favorite on-line relationships begun as huge arguments with cynical artists, who believe everyone in the music business, is corrupt. But really, all this stuff is just words, on a web page.
Much ado about nothing. We all have a few skeletons in the closet. They make us better people.
Steve
So Steve, would I be misunderstanding you if I took your core points to mean the following:
1) Andrew is not evil.
2) Shit happens no matter how you play it.
3) “Inappropriate behavior” is no biggie, because, in your experience, it often leads to something good happening?
Not trying to pick a fight, by the way (seriously! :) ).
-Mark (www.theenrighthouse.com_
As an aside… how awkward is this actually, Andrew? I mean we’re sort of (not really anymore) debating your choices… amongst ourselves… on your own blog. Ha. I think if people did that on my blog I would start getting a bit uneasy about the whole scenario, actually!
-Mark
My 2cents worth is………..
…………..it was a pretty heavy handed and somewhat grumpy response…………. were you out of coffee Andrew?
Ain’t the Gmail spam filter’s just great though!. I filtered out Barack Obama’s spam ( god knows how I ended up on his list, definitely unsolicited) – but I’m very happy he won!
I’d vote for the spam filter, or the delete button, personally.
k
I guess if you were making the point on not replying to everyone via cc: and then did it yourself (albeit by accident) it does come across as hypocritical.
Good recovery though, we’re all only human after all!
Mark,
I agree with 1 & 2. #3 is subjective. Inappropriate rarely has the same meaning for everyone. And although that thought does scare me a bit, I find it rare, that inappropriate behavior doesn’t lead to something good. The contrast always teaches us something.
Steve
Dubs, and the rest of the DIY posse.
After umming and ahhing about how I could create a mailing list which wouldn’t end up in everyone’s spam filter (bcc’d) I decided to learn more about the science of mailing lists.
On my travels for knowldedge I came across a great tutorial on
http://www.mailchimp.com/index.phtml
and subsequently discovered their Free service.
Their site is what I can only describe as a serious engineering feat with awesomely customizable emails and previews of all the elements you would require in a mailing list.
not to mention the statistics reports which are available to see how well people are responding to your mailouts.
…options for trialling 2 sets of identical mails with different Subject lines? wow!
I might come across as evangelical about them, but only because an afternoon of looking for new methods uncovered a whole world of possibilities :)
Definitely worth a look, even for the tutorials + guides section sections.
you uncovered a problem dubs, here’s another solution :)
Andrew,
I think you did the right thing! More politely than I would have :)
I too get really annoyed and frustrated with the careless practice of CC’ing.
I think some people realise that this is not the best way to email but don’t care. Ok, I understand that some newbie’s may not get this straight off, however, I have also mentioned this to some of my emailers and have not blocked them. I always give them the chance to make amends! The problem is, some of these people pay no attention to good advice. And proceed to be blocked by me.
I think CC’ing everyone into an email is the fastest way to alienate music businesses and serious bloggers such as yourself.
If you are trying to promote yourself you need to get some of the basics right. If you don’t approach people in the correct manner you deserve to be blocked!
Lee Pritchard
Firstly, all of us have to sort through our junk in one way or another. Especially those of us that tend to get a lot of emails. You can’t be spending all day looking through everything so you have to be efficient in prioritizing (or outsourcing if necessary). Not everyone realizes this.
Secondly, bands and artists are notorious for questionable Internet etiquette, and they think it’s OK because they’re “trying to spread the word”. But all musicians are trying to “spread the word”, aren’t they? Let’s try to be civilized about this.
I’ve always found it more useful to try to build relationships rather than fire a cannon at everybody.
Hi Andrew,
Okay, your response was a bit strong…the public shaming was a bit harsh. BUT yes, I do agree that unsolicited emails do clog up the inbox. However, I’ve just come to accept – and embrace – that passionate musicians are going to do whatever it is they have to do to “spread the word”. I can not change that, and neither will you.
As a musician, writer, and speaker, I meet tons of people each year who will no doubt put me on their band mailing list whether or not they have my permission. What I’ve learned to do is have a “social” email address that I publish, and use on my business cards. My personal email address is not for public consumption, and I consider my social email address like a “work” email address. I actually like checking out the band emails, as I get lots of ideas to swipe, or for cautionary tales for what not to do. I’ve chosen to find the inspiration in them. And there’s always the delete button!
The other important thing that you need to remember is that you also shamed this band in front of other people that do not know who you are. And you do not know who they are. As that email is in digital form, it’s potentially viral, and the other people copied on that email can now forward your email to *their* network. You may want to consider that that you also created an unforgettable first impression ;-)
My suggestion may not be workable for many people, but it works for me. There will always be bands that just want their shot enough to break the rules. Whether you like it or not, it’s just rock and roll.
Carla
I’m astonished you’re apologizing. You gave them a very simple, level response which was vastly more than they deserved. They should be apologizing, to you and everyone else on the email list.
Ah balls! I just sent an email about the bands gig this coming Friday on autopilot… checked my sent items to get some info from it to use in another email and BAMM!!!
I’d put the whole email list into the ‘to’ field!
All of my list are ‘opt ins’ but I’m still kicking myself! I instantly remembered this post and thought I’d share my error!
I’m not really looking forward to the responses I might get but if any are as informative and helpful as yours I’ll be happy!