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	<title>Comments on: What&#039;s the loudness war?</title>
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	<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/</link>
	<description>Music culture, strategy and thinking in the digital age</description>
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		<title>By: Steven Stratton</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-6719</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Stratton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 16:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-6719</guid>
		<description>I myself am a music arranger, and the loudness war makes it almost impossible to understand guitar parts!! Many times with rhythm guitars, I have to pay attention to the bass line, because the distortion is so high, and the complete head-room of all the frequencies don&#039;t come through well. I&#039;m also tired of getting headaches from listening to music!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I myself am a music arranger, and the loudness war makes it almost impossible to understand guitar parts!! Many times with rhythm guitars, I have to pay attention to the bass line, because the distortion is so high, and the complete head-room of all the frequencies don&#8217;t come through well. I&#8217;m also tired of getting headaches from listening to music!!</p>
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		<title>By: Kristoffer McElhaney</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-6702</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristoffer McElhaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-6702</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-6701&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Kristoffer McElhaney:&lt;/a&gt; 
But like I said before, you have skills if you can make a recording with very small limiting, sound better than a recording that participated in the loudness war. I know of very few that do that and you can tell sound better when compairing without touching the volume knob. I have been starting to create more of those mixes as I get more experienced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-6701" rel="nofollow">@Kristoffer McElhaney:</a><br />
But like I said before, you have skills if you can make a recording with very small limiting, sound better than a recording that participated in the loudness war. I know of very few that do that and you can tell sound better when compairing without touching the volume knob. I have been starting to create more of those mixes as I get more experienced.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristoffer McElhaney</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-6701</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristoffer McElhaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 17:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-6701</guid>
		<description>As much as I agree with this post, I don&#039;t agree.
The loudness war is quite stupid, I know, I have mixed and mastered many recordings, and trying to take a recording sound &quot;up to par&quot; with the competition is very difficult without touching the volume knob. It takes intense equalizing, separate instrument equalizing, exciting, compression, etc.

But, the loudness war is not as bad as you took it to be.
Dynamic compression is NOT THAT bad. It take the loud parts and trims the peaks with a limiter. (NOT CUTTING, AS IN THE VIDEO) When you do this, the quite parts become louder. 

There are many advantages to participating in the loudness war when creating a mix.
When you push the volume on the limiter, (With the right limiter setting of course) makes the recording flat (as in frequency response). When you push them, like say, Metallica&#039;s Death Magnetic album, you get a very flat, and lush frequency response across the spectrum. If you push the recording the wrong way, you get no dynamics, no punch, and tons of distortion, just like the album I mentioned above and in the video that was used as a example.

I find that tweaking a recording to be flat across the spectrum with a 4-band compressor and a limiter works like magic rather than a equalizer and exciter, like most people use. Plus, when used right, you don&#039;t even need to equalize the separate instruments. In my opinion, the loudness war is as good as it is bad. Bad if done horribly wrong, like the AC/DC remasters and most everything else that comes from Sterling Sound.

I have mastered and mixed many CD&#039;s using a very interesting technique. I recorded the instruments, leveled the volume, put them all together, and ran a limiter, and a 4-band compressor on top of it all. All the instruments share the space in the spectrum, rather than eqing them to have only dominate certain spots on the spectrum. (Some people say that this causes frequencies to collide, but with a limiter, that rids that problem) With the limiter, pushing the volume as loud as it will go, while making sure absolutely no distortion occurs in each band, and a perfect limiter setting creates a VERY flat response, and sounds great on any system, while keeping the punch and clearity of the mix. This is how a mix should be done if you want to participate in the loudness war. No distortion filled noise. Distortion is what makes your head hurt from listening, not the volume. Punchy dynamics are created from the 4-band compressor. 

You can still have excellent dynamics and clarity in a mix while participating in the loudness war. In the video above, the guy simply cut the waves, which created insane amounts of distortion, along with many other errors in the example.

Thanks!
-Kris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I agree with this post, I don&#8217;t agree.<br />
The loudness war is quite stupid, I know, I have mixed and mastered many recordings, and trying to take a recording sound &#8220;up to par&#8221; with the competition is very difficult without touching the volume knob. It takes intense equalizing, separate instrument equalizing, exciting, compression, etc.</p>
<p>But, the loudness war is not as bad as you took it to be.<br />
Dynamic compression is NOT THAT bad. It take the loud parts and trims the peaks with a limiter. (NOT CUTTING, AS IN THE VIDEO) When you do this, the quite parts become louder. </p>
<p>There are many advantages to participating in the loudness war when creating a mix.<br />
When you push the volume on the limiter, (With the right limiter setting of course) makes the recording flat (as in frequency response). When you push them, like say, Metallica&#8217;s Death Magnetic album, you get a very flat, and lush frequency response across the spectrum. If you push the recording the wrong way, you get no dynamics, no punch, and tons of distortion, just like the album I mentioned above and in the video that was used as a example.</p>
<p>I find that tweaking a recording to be flat across the spectrum with a 4-band compressor and a limiter works like magic rather than a equalizer and exciter, like most people use. Plus, when used right, you don&#8217;t even need to equalize the separate instruments. In my opinion, the loudness war is as good as it is bad. Bad if done horribly wrong, like the AC/DC remasters and most everything else that comes from Sterling Sound.</p>
<p>I have mastered and mixed many CD&#8217;s using a very interesting technique. I recorded the instruments, leveled the volume, put them all together, and ran a limiter, and a 4-band compressor on top of it all. All the instruments share the space in the spectrum, rather than eqing them to have only dominate certain spots on the spectrum. (Some people say that this causes frequencies to collide, but with a limiter, that rids that problem) With the limiter, pushing the volume as loud as it will go, while making sure absolutely no distortion occurs in each band, and a perfect limiter setting creates a VERY flat response, and sounds great on any system, while keeping the punch and clearity of the mix. This is how a mix should be done if you want to participate in the loudness war. No distortion filled noise. Distortion is what makes your head hurt from listening, not the volume. Punchy dynamics are created from the 4-band compressor. </p>
<p>You can still have excellent dynamics and clarity in a mix while participating in the loudness war. In the video above, the guy simply cut the waves, which created insane amounts of distortion, along with many other errors in the example.</p>
<p>Thanks!<br />
-Kris</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Vickers</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-4823</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Vickers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 03:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-4823</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve posted a video based on a presentation I gave on this topic at a recent convention of the Audio Engineering Society: http://www.sfxmachine.com/docs/loudnesswar/ . The presentation discusses the audible effects of hypercompression and looks at the loudness war in terms of game theory. After presenting evidence questioning the idea that louder recordings sell better, it suggests some possible ways to de-escalate the loudness war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve posted a video based on a presentation I gave on this topic at a recent convention of the Audio Engineering Society: <a href="http://www.sfxmachine.com/docs/loudnesswar/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfxmachine.com/docs/loudnesswar/</a> . The presentation discusses the audible effects of hypercompression and looks at the loudness war in terms of game theory. After presenting evidence questioning the idea that louder recordings sell better, it suggests some possible ways to de-escalate the loudness war.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2500</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2500</guid>
		<description>Years before i did even know about the Loudness War, I listened alot to Red hot chili peppers &quot;Californication&quot;., I remember that i turned down the volume alot because my ears hurt during longer playtime. I was just a regular teenager and didnt know anything about HIFI and Dynamics. Like Chris wrote on the post before:

&quot;It’s not only audiophiles who are being repulsed by it, but also millions and millions of regular music fans&quot;,

Cant even enjoy a live Rock Concert anymore due to the &quot;Loudness War Effect&quot; Im telling you! Its everywhere, spreading like a virus!

I guess i have to use &quot;Soft Clipping&quot; for home listening and Earplugs for live concerts in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years before i did even know about the Loudness War, I listened alot to Red hot chili peppers &#8220;Californication&#8221;., I remember that i turned down the volume alot because my ears hurt during longer playtime. I was just a regular teenager and didnt know anything about HIFI and Dynamics. Like Chris wrote on the post before:</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s not only audiophiles who are being repulsed by it, but also millions and millions of regular music fans&#8221;,</p>
<p>Cant even enjoy a live Rock Concert anymore due to the &#8220;Loudness War Effect&#8221; Im telling you! Its everywhere, spreading like a virus!</p>
<p>I guess i have to use &#8220;Soft Clipping&#8221; for home listening and Earplugs for live concerts in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2490</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2490</guid>
		<description>James Pew is absolutely right in saying that the loudness war is a major cause of the decline in record sales. Obviously the industry thought, or assumed, it would actually boost sales, but in practice it&#039;s having the OPPOSITE affect. It&#039;s not only audiophiles who are being repulsed by it, but also millions and millions of regular music fans, who want to be able to listen to, focus on, appreciate and experience the music - and find themselves physically UNABLE to do so, because the non-musical square waves of these &quot;bricked&quot; CDs induce fatigue, pain and sometimes even nausea. Not only that, but what with the sonic-details in the music being lost through clipping and over-processing, the listeners are being short-changed/ripped-off, because they are literally NOT GETTING ALL THE MUSIC - what they are getting is a maimed, bastardised version of the music, with parts chopped off!

It is through alienating this LARGE group of regular music fans (ie. buyers/potential-buyers) that the industry has run itself into the ground. For proof, check out the following links I found on amazon.com and a music-trading site. These are music CUSTOMERS, ticked off by the loudness war, sending out messages to other customers, warning people NOT to waste their money on particular CD releases/remasters, or even to bother listening to them:

http://www.amazon.com/tag/victim%20of%20the%20loudness%20war/products

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R120N2FPI04EV4/ref=tag_tdp_rb_elst

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000002AP1/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&amp;filterBy=addOneStar

http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/product/B0000251W3?filterBy=addOneStar

http://www.sharoma.com/trading/loudness.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Pew is absolutely right in saying that the loudness war is a major cause of the decline in record sales. Obviously the industry thought, or assumed, it would actually boost sales, but in practice it&#8217;s having the OPPOSITE affect. It&#8217;s not only audiophiles who are being repulsed by it, but also millions and millions of regular music fans, who want to be able to listen to, focus on, appreciate and experience the music &#8211; and find themselves physically UNABLE to do so, because the non-musical square waves of these &#8220;bricked&#8221; CDs induce fatigue, pain and sometimes even nausea. Not only that, but what with the sonic-details in the music being lost through clipping and over-processing, the listeners are being short-changed/ripped-off, because they are literally NOT GETTING ALL THE MUSIC &#8211; what they are getting is a maimed, bastardised version of the music, with parts chopped off!</p>
<p>It is through alienating this LARGE group of regular music fans (ie. buyers/potential-buyers) that the industry has run itself into the ground. For proof, check out the following links I found on amazon.com and a music-trading site. These are music CUSTOMERS, ticked off by the loudness war, sending out messages to other customers, warning people NOT to waste their money on particular CD releases/remasters, or even to bother listening to them:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/tag/victim%20of%20the%20loudness%20war/products" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/tag/victim%20of%20the%20loudness%20war/products</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R120N2FPI04EV4/ref=tag_tdp_rb_elst" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R120N2FPI04EV4/ref=tag_tdp_rb_elst</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000002AP1/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&#038;filterBy=addOneStar" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000002AP1/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&#038;filterBy=addOneStar</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/product/B0000251W3?filterBy=addOneStar" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/product/B0000251W3?filterBy=addOneStar</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.sharoma.com/trading/loudness.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sharoma.com/trading/loudness.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2481</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2481</guid>
		<description>Great discussion here. I went through this issue recently with &lt;a href=&quot;http://bbelief.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my own indie release&lt;/a&gt;, when I had it mastered by &lt;a href=&quot;http://sterlingsound.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sterling Sound&lt;/a&gt;. These guys are one of the top mastering studios in the world and do all the popular rap and rock releases, which are as hot (compressed) as you can imagine. But I let the mastering engineer use his judgment instead of asking for a blaringly loud master, and it turned out much less compressed than other albums he&#039;d done for major labels. The result IS that it&#039;s not as loud overall as most major label releases. Does it sound better? I think so.

There&#039;s something seductive about the huge levels of compression these days, where everything is in your face from the beginning, but after listening to the several songs that never change dynamically, it starts to sound pretty lifeless and fake.

It&#039;s ironic that indie artists that no one cares are still free to have their masters done right, but that being on a major label or getting major airplay means having the life squeezed out of your dynamic range.

That was pretty funny reading the complaints about too much dynamic range in classical music. Manning the volume knob every time I want to listen to classical recordings drives me crazy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion here. I went through this issue recently with <a href="http://bbelief.com" rel="nofollow">my own indie release</a>, when I had it mastered by <a href="http://sterlingsound.com/" rel="nofollow">Sterling Sound</a>. These guys are one of the top mastering studios in the world and do all the popular rap and rock releases, which are as hot (compressed) as you can imagine. But I let the mastering engineer use his judgment instead of asking for a blaringly loud master, and it turned out much less compressed than other albums he&#8217;d done for major labels. The result IS that it&#8217;s not as loud overall as most major label releases. Does it sound better? I think so.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s something seductive about the huge levels of compression these days, where everything is in your face from the beginning, but after listening to the several songs that never change dynamically, it starts to sound pretty lifeless and fake.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ironic that indie artists that no one cares are still free to have their masters done right, but that being on a major label or getting major airplay means having the life squeezed out of your dynamic range.</p>
<p>That was pretty funny reading the complaints about too much dynamic range in classical music. Manning the volume knob every time I want to listen to classical recordings drives me crazy!</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Marshall</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2501</guid>
		<description>My CD album HereAfter was mixed and mastered by the old school genius John Wood (John Martyn, Nick Drake, Richard Thompson) ..who flatly refused to use any &quot;program&quot; at any stage of the process.

Instead we opted for a great Studer machine to mix on and some wonderful Valve outboard gear and great transparent speakers to master on .. and yes it breathes a lot more than stuff I&#039;ve just had put through a Waves type program.

When I asked him why, he replied &quot;if you want it louder .. turn it up&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My CD album HereAfter was mixed and mastered by the old school genius John Wood (John Martyn, Nick Drake, Richard Thompson) ..who flatly refused to use any &#8220;program&#8221; at any stage of the process.</p>
<p>Instead we opted for a great Studer machine to mix on and some wonderful Valve outboard gear and great transparent speakers to master on .. and yes it breathes a lot more than stuff I&#8217;ve just had put through a Waves type program.</p>
<p>When I asked him why, he replied &#8220;if you want it louder .. turn it up&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2499</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2499</guid>
		<description>I think Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (mofi dot com) really cares about their re-issues - no compression whatsoever. They make it a point to get all the dynamic range in there. It really sounds amazing on a good system - and even on my ipod (in lossless format of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (mofi dot com) really cares about their re-issues &#8211; no compression whatsoever. They make it a point to get all the dynamic range in there. It really sounds amazing on a good system &#8211; and even on my ipod (in lossless format of course).</p>
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		<title>By: Links&#8230; &#124;</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2008/08/11/whats-the-loudness-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2498</link>
		<dc:creator>Links&#8230; &#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/?p=718#comment-2498</guid>
		<description>[...] The Loudness War - A great article about whether or not audio compression is a good or bad thing. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Loudness War &#8211; A great article about whether or not audio compression is a good or bad thing. [...]</p>
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