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	<title>Comments on: Serialised hubris</title>
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	<description>Music culture, strategy and thinking in the digital age</description>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1102</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 02:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1102</guid>
		<description>Another great discussion

I respect Gerd&#039;s ideas, but one of the biggest problems I have with the &#039;music like water&#039; idea is the amount of change required.  It requires a total re-adaptation from many different angles - government, business, consumers etc

Apple sure as hell wouldnt take it without a fight - etc

In fact I&#039;m coming to the conclusion that I really dont know what&#039;s wrong with the way things are shaping up now - there are more and more ways appearing to accept payment and social networking/PR as well - we have already seen the technology come into play that has cut out the middle man - we&#039;re seeing more and more cases of musicians doing it themselves, and some people even dont see it as the death of the record industry, more their transformation into PR/promotion companies

why would everybody want to push to make all the changes neccessary to have a flat tax when as it stands now you can buy tracks for a few cents?

It all just seems a bit like coming up with solutions to things that are solving themselves naturally

sure people are downloading off P2P - but maybe the only difference in that to taping albums onto cassette is there was no way of telling easily how many copies were made - but there must have been billions of cassette copies of albums made between the 70s-90s

illegal downloads are just a fact of life, and I see it more as the responsibility of the artist to just provide more reasons to pay them the money - and there can be loads

I think we have to accept that the price recorded music fetches is much less than it used to be, but the cost of producing it is too, and by cutting out the middle man and doing it yourself you get to keep all of it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great discussion</p>
<p>I respect Gerd&#8217;s ideas, but one of the biggest problems I have with the &#8216;music like water&#8217; idea is the amount of change required.  It requires a total re-adaptation from many different angles &#8211; government, business, consumers etc</p>
<p>Apple sure as hell wouldnt take it without a fight &#8211; etc</p>
<p>In fact I&#8217;m coming to the conclusion that I really dont know what&#8217;s wrong with the way things are shaping up now &#8211; there are more and more ways appearing to accept payment and social networking/PR as well &#8211; we have already seen the technology come into play that has cut out the middle man &#8211; we&#8217;re seeing more and more cases of musicians doing it themselves, and some people even dont see it as the death of the record industry, more their transformation into PR/promotion companies</p>
<p>why would everybody want to push to make all the changes neccessary to have a flat tax when as it stands now you can buy tracks for a few cents?</p>
<p>It all just seems a bit like coming up with solutions to things that are solving themselves naturally</p>
<p>sure people are downloading off P2P &#8211; but maybe the only difference in that to taping albums onto cassette is there was no way of telling easily how many copies were made &#8211; but there must have been billions of cassette copies of albums made between the 70s-90s</p>
<p>illegal downloads are just a fact of life, and I see it more as the responsibility of the artist to just provide more reasons to pay them the money &#8211; and there can be loads</p>
<p>I think we have to accept that the price recorded music fetches is much less than it used to be, but the cost of producing it is too, and by cutting out the middle man and doing it yourself you get to keep all of it</p>
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		<title>By: Hubris Is The Future Of Music</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1101</link>
		<dc:creator>Hubris Is The Future Of Music</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1101</guid>
		<description>[...] Dubber expresses some criticism of the breed of technological determinism espoused by EoC, and goes on to accuse Leonhard of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dubber expresses some criticism of the breed of technological determinism espoused by EoC, and goes on to accuse Leonhard of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nolan Smock</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1100</link>
		<dc:creator>Nolan Smock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1100</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, I should say this isn&#039;t a tour of venues (except for a couple nights, anyway), it&#039;s a tour of house gigs and public space performances... a literal embodiment of that &quot;disappearing line&quot; I mentioned, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, I should say this isn&#8217;t a tour of venues (except for a couple nights, anyway), it&#8217;s a tour of house gigs and public space performances&#8230; a literal embodiment of that &#8220;disappearing line&#8221; I mentioned, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Nolan Smock</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1099</link>
		<dc:creator>Nolan Smock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1099</guid>
		<description>Milton,

I think that actually the beauty in Radiohead&#039;s release is, sure they have the funds to do these things, but they are essentially creating their own capital. I&#039;m sure they already have the funding for the disc-box but when I look at my situation, a relatively unknown musician with a fan base of a couple hundred, I see this idea still at work.

I released a free album last Tuesday and it bumped my attention through the roof and this is with no label support. Because of that attention, I have people all around my state who are willing to essentially finance my tour (that is, feeding me, putting me up, paying for merch, and paying for performance) and I have made no loss as of yet.

I&#039;m an &quot;artist&quot; and I think what sets me apart from others in my area (geographically) is not the understanding of the technology, but the understanding of the shift of power from labels into the hands of the consumer. The middleman is dying out and I can be responsible for my own success or failing.

While I think what Leonhard has to say about everyone creating content and media is utter nonsense, I still think what he has to say about the separation between producer and consumer disappearing is almost right on. However, not everyone wants to create! Some people just want to experience and enjoy creativity. The line isn&#039;t disappearing because everyone is creating, it&#039;s disappearing because there&#039;s no middleman and those providing creative media are finely-tuned to the consumers tastes and a part of their everyday experience instead of just a CD on the shelf.

Something like that, anyway.

Love the blog. Started reading it via a link in Hometracked after I was getting frustrated about having no musician friends know what I was talking about. It&#039;s good to know there&#039;s a bigger dialogue about this stuff going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milton,</p>
<p>I think that actually the beauty in Radiohead&#8217;s release is, sure they have the funds to do these things, but they are essentially creating their own capital. I&#8217;m sure they already have the funding for the disc-box but when I look at my situation, a relatively unknown musician with a fan base of a couple hundred, I see this idea still at work.</p>
<p>I released a free album last Tuesday and it bumped my attention through the roof and this is with no label support. Because of that attention, I have people all around my state who are willing to essentially finance my tour (that is, feeding me, putting me up, paying for merch, and paying for performance) and I have made no loss as of yet.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an &#8220;artist&#8221; and I think what sets me apart from others in my area (geographically) is not the understanding of the technology, but the understanding of the shift of power from labels into the hands of the consumer. The middleman is dying out and I can be responsible for my own success or failing.</p>
<p>While I think what Leonhard has to say about everyone creating content and media is utter nonsense, I still think what he has to say about the separation between producer and consumer disappearing is almost right on. However, not everyone wants to create! Some people just want to experience and enjoy creativity. The line isn&#8217;t disappearing because everyone is creating, it&#8217;s disappearing because there&#8217;s no middleman and those providing creative media are finely-tuned to the consumers tastes and a part of their everyday experience instead of just a CD on the shelf.</p>
<p>Something like that, anyway.</p>
<p>Love the blog. Started reading it via a link in Hometracked after I was getting frustrated about having no musician friends know what I was talking about. It&#8217;s good to know there&#8217;s a bigger dialogue about this stuff going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerd Leohhard publica livro &#8220;O Fim do Controlo&#8221; gratuitamente online &#124; Remixtures</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerd Leohhard publica livro &#8220;O Fim do Controlo&#8221; gratuitamente online &#124; Remixtures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1098</guid>
		<description>[...] George Gilder, etc.)?Ã‚  HÃƒÂ¡ quem seja dessa opiniÃƒÂ£o. Ãƒâ€° o caso de Andrew Dubber que no seu New Music Strategies desanca no determinismo tecnolÃƒÂ³gico de Leonhard. Falando em termos gerais, penso que a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] George Gilder, etc.)?Ã‚  HÃƒÂ¡ quem seja dessa opiniÃƒÂ£o. Ãƒâ€° o caso de Andrew Dubber que no seu New Music Strategies desanca no determinismo tecnolÃƒÂ³gico de Leonhard. Falando em termos gerais, penso que a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MindscapeMusic</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1097</link>
		<dc:creator>MindscapeMusic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1097</guid>
		<description>This is a great discussion!  I think Mr. Alexandrovich has a good point - this isn&#039;t *quite* the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in action (ie that the act of &quot;examining&quot; something changes its nature), but it&#039;s something similar:

We shouldn&#039;t assume that the most *interesting* aspects of the trend are the most *common* aspects of a trend.  The fact of fan-made mashups is singificant, cool and new; but it&#039;s not so commonplace that everyone is doing it (among all my music-loving friends, I don&#039;t know anyone who has made a mashup!)

The model for the music business is indeed changing, but, as Bruce Warila implied, some core aspects of peoples&#039; reaction to music and WHY they consume it will remain unchanged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great discussion!  I think Mr. Alexandrovich has a good point &#8211; this isn&#8217;t *quite* the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in action (ie that the act of &#8220;examining&#8221; something changes its nature), but it&#8217;s something similar:</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t assume that the most *interesting* aspects of the trend are the most *common* aspects of a trend.  The fact of fan-made mashups is singificant, cool and new; but it&#8217;s not so commonplace that everyone is doing it (among all my music-loving friends, I don&#8217;t know anyone who has made a mashup!)</p>
<p>The model for the music business is indeed changing, but, as Bruce Warila implied, some core aspects of peoples&#8217; reaction to music and WHY they consume it will remain unchanged.</p>
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		<title>By: Milton</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1096</guid>
		<description>Reading this exchange here while also digesting the Radiohead new release article located in the Newswire section supplied me with a considerable amount of information to ponder.

A band like Radiohead has the means (money, technology and talent) to seemingly make the most of the current conditions being discussed here. Unfortunately most &quot;unknown&quot; artists will be hard pressed to implement such a high standard of consumer/artist satisfaction. This is not to say that we; the striving musicians/businesspeople are not capable of similar ideas and concepts...just that the funds to put such a plan into action are much more accessible to the boys in a platinum selling band.

I may or may not have a point here...but if I did I guess it might be for the little fish out there to think just as creatively but on a much smaller/affordable scale. Anyone making music in their home studio that has plans of rock stardom and all the riches so many associate with it...well...slow down and think smart and think about the here and now...and think about what you can do in a localized way to bring about your hopeful success. (Not to mention defining what success actually means to the specific individual)

Mr. Eno, Mr. Gabriel and even Mr. Timberlake will not need to worry about how to feed the family...but many, many, many of us do. Don&#039;t quit your day job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this exchange here while also digesting the Radiohead new release article located in the Newswire section supplied me with a considerable amount of information to ponder.</p>
<p>A band like Radiohead has the means (money, technology and talent) to seemingly make the most of the current conditions being discussed here. Unfortunately most &#8220;unknown&#8221; artists will be hard pressed to implement such a high standard of consumer/artist satisfaction. This is not to say that we; the striving musicians/businesspeople are not capable of similar ideas and concepts&#8230;just that the funds to put such a plan into action are much more accessible to the boys in a platinum selling band.</p>
<p>I may or may not have a point here&#8230;but if I did I guess it might be for the little fish out there to think just as creatively but on a much smaller/affordable scale. Anyone making music in their home studio that has plans of rock stardom and all the riches so many associate with it&#8230;well&#8230;slow down and think smart and think about the here and now&#8230;and think about what you can do in a localized way to bring about your hopeful success. (Not to mention defining what success actually means to the specific individual)</p>
<p>Mr. Eno, Mr. Gabriel and even Mr. Timberlake will not need to worry about how to feed the family&#8230;but many, many, many of us do. Don&#8217;t quit your day job.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerd Leonhard</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1095</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerd Leonhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1095</guid>
		<description>Guys, about Futurism: for me, this is simply a good tag I use to describe what I do. In fact, I only started using it after dozens of people told me that they wanted to hear more  &#039;about the future&#039; from me! Fact is, I am just about as interested in the Presence than I am in the Future. And on that note:  I don&#039;t claim to offer definitive scenarios about what&#039;s going to happen in 3 years. I just look at trends and developments, put a very large puzzle together, and try to scout out where things are going, and how one can jump on the right train at the right time. If you are looking what great people and thinkers like Glen Hiemstra do (www.futurist.com - he&#039;s a friend) I am definitely in a rather modest range as far as serious futurizing is concerned. And also: which possibilities am I claiming as facts (declan) - ALL of my work is always presented as opinion.  Cheers  Gerd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, about Futurism: for me, this is simply a good tag I use to describe what I do. In fact, I only started using it after dozens of people told me that they wanted to hear more  &#8216;about the future&#8217; from me! Fact is, I am just about as interested in the Presence than I am in the Future. And on that note:  I don&#8217;t claim to offer definitive scenarios about what&#8217;s going to happen in 3 years. I just look at trends and developments, put a very large puzzle together, and try to scout out where things are going, and how one can jump on the right train at the right time. If you are looking what great people and thinkers like Glen Hiemstra do (www.futurist.com &#8211; he&#8217;s a friend) I am definitely in a rather modest range as far as serious futurizing is concerned. And also: which possibilities am I claiming as facts (declan) &#8211; ALL of my work is always presented as opinion.  Cheers  Gerd</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Warila</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1094</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Warila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1094</guid>
		<description>Great exchange guys!

When I talk to artists and I say things like &quot;technology is changing the music industry&quot;, I get a short stare, a long draw on cigarette, a slurp of beer and response like &quot;you think so...&quot;

I pause and I think again.  Nope your skepticism is worthy of my reconsideration.  My statement is meaningless to you.  You are an artist and you need a deeper explanation.

Technology does not reach into the sole and therefore it can not be the deep reason why your music can&#039;t buy petrol  for the wagon.

So, I dig a little deeper - really deep, and I say &quot;technology is enabling humanity to return to our source; to help us reconnect with our ancestral tribes with unprecedented speed...&quot;

I get a long stare this time, his cigarette burns in his hand untouched and the beer stays on the table.

He says &quot;I can see that...how can I find a tribe that will buy my music?&quot;

I&#039;m stuck, but I say &quot;I will get back to you with a solid answer next week...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great exchange guys!</p>
<p>When I talk to artists and I say things like &#8220;technology is changing the music industry&#8221;, I get a short stare, a long draw on cigarette, a slurp of beer and response like &#8220;you think so&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I pause and I think again.  Nope your skepticism is worthy of my reconsideration.  My statement is meaningless to you.  You are an artist and you need a deeper explanation.</p>
<p>Technology does not reach into the sole and therefore it can not be the deep reason why your music can&#8217;t buy petrol  for the wagon.</p>
<p>So, I dig a little deeper &#8211; really deep, and I say &#8220;technology is enabling humanity to return to our source; to help us reconnect with our ancestral tribes with unprecedented speed&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I get a long stare this time, his cigarette burns in his hand untouched and the beer stays on the table.</p>
<p>He says &#8220;I can see that&#8230;how can I find a tribe that will buy my music?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m stuck, but I say &#8220;I will get back to you with a solid answer next week&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mikhail alexandrovich</title>
		<link>http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/comment-page-1/#comment-1093</link>
		<dc:creator>mikhail alexandrovich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/01/serialised-hubris/#comment-1093</guid>
		<description>Gerd says &quot;I am talking about how PEOPLE have changed due to the technology that is now available to them.&quot; What figures are available on things like now many people have access to new technology, how many have changed as a result and how many are carrying on regardless? Again, there will always be numbers of people, with, without or don&#039;t even care about technology and of course this will cause complication in making assumptions on what will happen. I still deal with bands who sell music on vinyl at gigs and have no interest in the internet or even cds for that matter. And technology may be one thing but huge numbers of people have no access to credit, credit cards, or even broadband so that will influence pirating, copying, and the rest....I think...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerd says &#8220;I am talking about how PEOPLE have changed due to the technology that is now available to them.&#8221; What figures are available on things like now many people have access to new technology, how many have changed as a result and how many are carrying on regardless? Again, there will always be numbers of people, with, without or don&#8217;t even care about technology and of course this will cause complication in making assumptions on what will happen. I still deal with bands who sell music on vinyl at gigs and have no interest in the internet or even cds for that matter. And technology may be one thing but huge numbers of people have no access to credit, credit cards, or even broadband so that will influence pirating, copying, and the rest&#8230;.I think&#8230;</p>
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