Comments on: Three conversations about music http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/ Music culture, strategy and thinking in the digital age Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:46:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Greatest Hits Compilation | New Music Strategies http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1054 Greatest Hits Compilation | New Music Strategies Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:50:25 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1054 [...] Three Conversations About Music Just over a year ago, I had three very different conversations with three different stakeholders in [...] [...] Three Conversations About Music Just over a year ago, I had three very different conversations with three different stakeholders in [...]

]]> By: 2007: Year in Review at New Music Strategies http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1053 2007: Year in Review at New Music Strategies Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:15:40 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1053 [...] Three Conversations About Music In this post, I think about the newest iPods, and what something that can hold 160GB of music and [...] [...] Three Conversations About Music In this post, I think about the newest iPods, and what something that can hold 160GB of music and [...]

]]> By: » Andrew Dubber: Three Conversations About Music : LMN Editor's Blog http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1044 » Andrew Dubber: Three Conversations About Music : LMN Editor's Blog Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:49:02 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1044 [...] English Blogger Talks to Three Semi-Fictional People About MusicIt’s all about how to make money in the music business. Dubber and Bob Leftsetz both think that revenue in the recorded music business will slow to just a trickle, simply because fans won’t want to pay the kind of prices labels and musicians want to charge. Nobody has any easy answers or, for that matter, much of an answer at all. Take a gander. [...] [...] English Blogger Talks to Three Semi-Fictional People About MusicIt’s all about how to make money in the music business. Dubber and Bob Leftsetz both think that revenue in the recorded music business will slow to just a trickle, simply because fans won’t want to pay the kind of prices labels and musicians want to charge. Nobody has any easy answers or, for that matter, much of an answer at all. Take a gander. [...]

]]> By: Stretch http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1045 Stretch Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:47:44 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1045 I don't have an MP3 player, or an ipod. I can't get itunes on my PC (because our operating system is Windows Millenium and it won't work on it). These things are just the format, the media and always tend to confuse the issue. Besides that, I hate sticking those little earpiece things in my ears. I think recorded music should be heard through great big SPEAKERS! When we set up our band/label 'cooperative' we knew that we had to ignore the way it had all been done before and operate in an entirely new way. We manage a band/artist and we're also the label. The artist is the A & R director of the label. People tell me that there is a conflict of interest if the label also manages the artist - but I've never worked out why that might be ... we're all working to the same end! We own a recording studio, and a cd publishing machine. So we sell merchandise and cd's online and at gigs. We sell downloads off our sites and through digital stores. The artist occasionally gets paid for live gigs. We have also made money out of producing & recording other artists, duplicating & printing cds for other people, & making websites. We're working towards closing the loop. In our 'team' we already have pr/marketing skills, music production & studio skills, business skills and internet skills. We want to team up with an internet radio show e.g the excellent Brumcast, and a promoter to form the complete package. We are working on this. Then we (as a label) will be able to get our music and that of other - initially local - artists played, promote our own gigs (ignoring the 'signed/unsigned' debate by just putting on great bands) grow our 'audience' by involving them in what we do as a team. Our 'label' will become an 'umbrella' for other artists to operate within. At the moment the money is coming in at a dribble, but our costs are low. Most of us are doing this and something else (to make a living) too. Only time will tell if this approach works. We know that we need huge amounts of publicity to really get the ball rolling but we're working on it! Stretch I don’t have an MP3 player, or an ipod. I can’t get itunes on my PC (because our operating system is Windows Millenium and it won’t work on it). These things are just the format, the media and always tend to confuse the issue. Besides that, I hate sticking those little earpiece things in my ears. I think recorded music should be heard through great big SPEAKERS!

When we set up our band/label ‘cooperative’ we knew that we had to ignore the way it had all been done before and operate in an entirely new way.

We manage a band/artist and we’re also the label. The artist is the A & R director of the label. People tell me that there is a conflict of interest if the label also manages the artist – but I’ve never worked out why that might be … we’re all working to the same end!

We own a recording studio, and a cd publishing machine. So we sell merchandise and cd’s online and at gigs. We sell downloads off our sites and through digital stores. The artist occasionally gets paid for live gigs. We have also made money out of producing & recording other artists, duplicating & printing cds for other people, & making websites.

We’re working towards closing the loop. In our ‘team’ we already have pr/marketing skills, music production & studio skills, business skills and internet skills. We want to team up with an internet radio show e.g the excellent Brumcast, and a promoter to form the complete package.

We are working on this. Then we (as a label) will be able to get our music and that of other – initially local – artists played, promote our own gigs (ignoring the ‘signed/unsigned’ debate by just putting on great bands) grow our ‘audience’ by involving them in what we do as a team. Our ‘label’ will become an ‘umbrella’ for other artists to operate within.

At the moment the money is coming in at a dribble, but our costs are low. Most of us are doing this and something else (to make a living) too. Only time will tell if this approach works. We know that we need huge amounts of publicity to really get the ball rolling but we’re working on it!

Stretch

]]> By: Bruce Warila http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1046 Bruce Warila Sun, 09 Sep 2007 21:12:22 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1046 Andrew, Thought provoking post you have here... I manage artists, run a small label, write a blog and build software that helps artists promote recorded music. Every day I wonder how are we going to make money in three years from music? I read a lot of blogs written by smart people, and we are all (assuming I am one of them) wondering the same thing... My current best advice goes something like this: 1. Give your songs. (recorded music) away. I believe I am building a decent presentation on why every artist should do this on my site (unsprungartists.com) 2. Sell your songs. 50% of the world may still buy them for now. The other 50% never will. 3. Make friends with a filmmaker and a writer; they are everywhere these days. A band is not a band any more. To survive economically a band has to be about entertainment. To thrive a band has to be entertaining on the Internet (think script and film). If you just have music, you are competing against 4,000,000 artists doing the same thing. 5. Forget about spending a ton of time on MySpace. Stop giving everything (pictures, video, blog entries)away on MySpace just to sell music. You need to bring all your great stuff back onto a web/blog site you own so you can start figuring out how to make money from the ad impressions that you are giving to MySpace now. Use MySpace and FaceBook to drive traffic to your own site, and not the other way around. 6. Remember the filmmaker? Learn how to be EPISODIC. Release something (music, a new mix, a short film, a new episode) every week or month. Don't forget to feature your music in the film... 7. When you are re-building your website, shooting your film, writing your songs, choosing your wardrobe, taking your pictures, and etc. know exactly who your audience will be, and who your SPONSORS will be. 8. Look into sites like Revver where you can make money from your video content. 9. Learn how to make your band into a brand. If you want to make money you cannot be just a band anymore. You need to be a mini television network. Did you know that Spielberg once said that 50% of every movie is the music? Think the inverse of this... 10. If you do all of this, within three years you will be able to charge fans a small annual fee to access your network, or you will pull in proportionate revenue from advertising. It's time to stop calling it the music industry people; you are in the entertainment industry now! OK, this is a bit long. Thanks for letting me think out loud... Cheers, Bruce Andrew,
Thought provoking post you have here…
I manage artists, run a small label, write a blog and build software that helps artists promote recorded music. Every day I wonder how are we going to make money in three years from music? I read a lot of blogs written by smart people, and we are all (assuming I am one of them) wondering the same thing… My current best advice goes something like this:

1. Give your songs. (recorded music) away.
I believe I am building a decent presentation on why every artist should do this on my site (unsprungartists.com)

2. Sell your songs.
50% of the world may still buy them for now. The other 50% never will.

3. Make friends with a filmmaker and a writer; they are everywhere these days. A band is not a band any more. To survive economically a band has to be about entertainment. To thrive a band has to be entertaining on the Internet (think script and film). If you just have music, you are competing against 4,000,000 artists doing the same thing.

5. Forget about spending a ton of time on MySpace. Stop giving everything (pictures, video, blog entries)away on MySpace just to sell music. You need to bring all your great stuff back onto a web/blog site you own so you can start figuring out how to make money from the ad impressions that you are giving to MySpace now. Use MySpace and FaceBook to drive traffic to your own site, and not the other way around.

6. Remember the filmmaker? Learn how to be EPISODIC. Release something (music, a new mix, a short film, a new episode) every week or month. Don’t forget to feature your music in the film…

7. When you are re-building your website, shooting your film, writing your songs, choosing your wardrobe, taking your pictures, and etc. know exactly who your audience will be, and who your SPONSORS will be.

8. Look into sites like Revver where you can make money from your video content.

9. Learn how to make your band into a brand. If you want to make money you cannot be just a band anymore. You need to be a mini television network. Did you know that Spielberg once said that 50% of every movie is the music? Think the inverse of this…

10. If you do all of this, within three years you will be able to charge fans a small annual fee to access your network, or you will pull in proportionate revenue from advertising.

It’s time to stop calling it the music industry people; you are in the entertainment industry now!

OK, this is a bit long. Thanks for letting me think out loud…

Cheers,

Bruce

]]> By: Jason Kemp http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1048 Jason Kemp Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:11:13 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1048 Another great post. I was looking at rate your music top albums of all time http://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time and only the Clash, Wu Tang, the Pixies, Smiths made it into the top 30. There is no doubt that a list like that shows up lots of great albums that should be re released or made available as digital tracks. The other issue is that music compression onm some of the labums of the past 15 years has screwed them up and I would rather remix them to be less compressed. See http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html for more details. The short story is that while I ditched most of my vinyl some time in the '80's I did keep a few albums and I'd still like to listen to them. I no longer have a turntable. I know how to digitize them and they will never be released on CD so what do I do? Another great post. I was looking at rate your music top albums of all time
http://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time

and only the Clash, Wu Tang, the Pixies, Smiths made it into the top 30.

There is no doubt that a list like that shows up lots of great albums that should be re released or made available as digital tracks. The other issue is that music compression onm some of the labums of the past 15 years has screwed them up and I would rather remix them to be less compressed. See http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html for more details.

The short story is that while I ditched most of my vinyl some time in the ’80′s I did keep a few albums and I’d still like to listen to them. I no longer have a turntable.

I know how to digitize them and they will never be released on CD so what do I do?

]]> By: Aron Wright http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1049 Aron Wright Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:20:41 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1049 I don't have much to say about the new iPod, except that I would love to have one. In response to the question,"How do you make money from music?" Record some songs, put them on iTunes and sell them, you'll make some money. It may only be $10 you make, but you've definitely just made some money. I'm sure that's not what we're talking about, right? If we're talking about making a LIVING from music, it's a totally different subject. Most musicians are so passionate about music they neglect the fact that once they choose to make a living at music, what they are really doing is starting a small business. How many independent musicians do you know that have made a business plan? done a market analysis? researched demographics? done any of the things any normal entrepreneur would do? my guess is next to none. If most small businesses don't turn a profit for 2-3 years at best, and most small businesses fail, why would musicians be any different? In an age when everyone and their mother can make a sweet hip hop number on their macbook, you had better have some solid songs and be prepared to play live shows...a lot of shows. If you don't want to do that, great, get a nice day job and have fun with your hobby when you get home. I live in Nashville, Tn, Music City USA, everyone I know is a musician and I have seen it happen countless times. People will make these brilliant records and will just sit on them. It's easy and fun to write songs and make a record, the hard part (which distinguishes those who make it and those who don't), is getting through the dip of creating an infrastructure by which your music can penetrate the market(not fun). Give your songs away, and sell them too! If people aren't buying songs, use the songs for marketing and benefit from increased concert attendance and merchandise sales. If people buy the recordings, great! Big artists of the past never made much money from selling albums, the record labels did! Musicians made their money from touring and merch. Don't just sell one t-shirt, sell 10 different kinds (not everyone likes the same color, you know). Get your music in TV and film, make vinyl records, create demand for yourself by touring and building your brand. Sorry for being long-winded. I don’t have much to say about the new iPod, except that I would love to have one.
In response to the question,”How do you make money from music?” Record some songs, put them on iTunes and sell them, you’ll make some money. It may only be $10 you make, but you’ve definitely just made some money. I’m sure that’s not what we’re talking about, right? If we’re talking about making a LIVING from music, it’s a totally different subject. Most musicians are so passionate about music they neglect the fact that once they choose to make a living at music, what they are really doing is starting a small business. How many independent musicians do you know that have made a business plan? done a market analysis? researched demographics? done any of the things any normal entrepreneur would do? my guess is next to none.
If most small businesses don’t turn a profit for 2-3 years at best, and most small businesses fail, why would musicians be any different?
In an age when everyone and their mother can make a sweet hip hop number on their macbook, you had better have some solid songs and be prepared to play live shows…a lot of shows. If you don’t want to do that, great, get a nice day job and have fun with your hobby when you get home.
I live in Nashville, Tn, Music City USA, everyone I know is a musician and I have seen it happen countless times. People will make these brilliant records and will just sit on them. It’s easy and fun to write songs and make a record, the hard part (which distinguishes those who make it and those who don’t), is getting through the dip of creating an infrastructure by which your music can penetrate the market(not fun).
Give your songs away, and sell them too! If people aren’t buying songs, use the songs for marketing and benefit from increased concert attendance and merchandise sales. If people buy the recordings, great! Big artists of the past never made much money from selling albums, the record labels did! Musicians made their money from touring and merch. Don’t just sell one t-shirt, sell 10 different kinds (not everyone likes the same color, you know). Get your music in TV and film, make vinyl records, create demand for yourself by touring and building your brand.
Sorry for being long-winded.

]]> By: Milton http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1050 Milton Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:10:18 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1050 The previous post from Vincent pointed out something very interesting; The design aspect of the various capacities of the iPods available. I think how we listen to music does play a part in the design and that the 160Gb iPods will find themselves used more for video and general storage...for those who have the additional income required to indulge in such a luxury. The practical people (maybe even making up the majority!) will see the sense in a 60Gb iPod as a way to digest their favorite music. As for the musician...well thats a whole other thing. However, I do think that rather than spend large amounts of money for studio time it would be a smarter investment to save that money to purchase the proper gear to record yourself. With exception to hired gun, instrument specific musicians and regular touring bands...Any musician that is paying to record in a studio (rather than get paid for being there!) needs to honestly consider spending that money on constructing their own recording environment. Become self reliant in the coming digital age. Use the emerging technologies to cut 75% off the overhead of your operation compared to the cost of self distribution in the analog age! Sorry to rattle on. These are just my singular opinions and perspectives and I imagine some folks may not agree with them. This seemed a good place to offer them. The previous post from Vincent pointed out something very interesting; The design aspect of the various capacities of the iPods available. I think how we listen to music does play a part in the design and that the 160Gb iPods will find themselves used more for video and general storage…for those who have the additional income required to indulge in such a luxury. The practical people (maybe even making up the majority!) will see the sense in a 60Gb iPod as a way to digest their favorite music.

As for the musician…well thats a whole other thing. However, I do think that rather than spend large amounts of money for studio time it would be a smarter investment to save that money to purchase the proper gear to record yourself. With exception to hired gun, instrument specific musicians and regular touring bands…Any musician that is paying to record in a studio (rather than get paid for being there!) needs to honestly consider spending that money on constructing their own recording environment. Become self reliant in the coming digital age. Use the emerging technologies to cut 75% off the overhead of your operation compared to the cost of self distribution in the analog age!

Sorry to rattle on. These are just my singular opinions and perspectives and I imagine some folks may not agree with them. This seemed a good place to offer them.

]]> By: John http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1051 John Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:06:26 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1051 ahh..and while I am at it..why does anyone need 160 GB of music? Because it has really struck me that lately collecting music like this is just another one of those consumer driven I have more than you do things..I have no idea about how much one should have either..but jesus' christy ..you know that nobody ever listens to it all..and probably doesn't know what they have either..but boy- they sure gots a LOT. ahh..and while I am at it..why does anyone need 160 GB of music? Because it has really struck me that lately collecting music like this is just another one of those consumer driven I have more than you do things..I have no idea about how much one should have either..but jesus’ christy ..you know that nobody ever listens to it all..and probably doesn’t know what they have either..but boy- they sure gots a LOT.

]]> By: John http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/comment-page-1/#comment-1052 John Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:00:40 +0000 http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/09/08/three-conversations-about-music/#comment-1052 One innerestin' point is the often hammered "give away your recordings for free and the rest will follow", as in "build it and they will come" etc.,thus making certain (if not all) said recordings "marketing loss leaders" or some other dated sounding Madison Ave phrase. The problem here is that umm.. recording music costs money! how about that! I know everyone has fabulous home studios based on their Macs with Neve input channels and Fairchild tube limiters (what.. you don't?)..but for a lot of people (hmm, say drummers who need a studio space..or even shriek a string quartet), a recording costs real cash money. So..be prepared to spend a lot of money for a real recording that will not sell (because you gave it away). So..next week at the Future of Music Coalition meetings in Washington DC (for which I will be one of several intrepid reporters for NMS) I will be asking the same question of some of the hoi poloi, the movva's and shakka's, etc. Just how would a musician/composer go about making a living in the 20 teens? Let's see what the "experts" have to say..hopefully more than the usual viral marketing blather that seems to have spread over the net like so much..viral marketing. Personally, I think as Andy sez above ..it's different horses for different courses..but one thing I know is if you call yourself a musician, you better be prepared to go out and play music for people. One innerestin’ point is the often hammered “give away your recordings for free and the rest will follow”, as in “build it and they will come” etc.,thus making certain (if not all) said recordings “marketing loss leaders” or some other dated sounding Madison Ave phrase. The problem here is that umm..
recording music costs money! how about that! I know everyone has fabulous home studios based on their Macs with Neve input channels and Fairchild tube limiters (what.. you don’t?)..but for a lot of people (hmm, say drummers who need a studio space..or even shriek a string quartet), a recording costs real cash money. So..be prepared to spend a lot of money for a real recording that will not sell (because you gave it away).

So..next week at the Future of Music Coalition meetings in Washington DC (for which I will be one of several intrepid reporters for NMS) I will be asking the same question of some of the hoi poloi, the movva’s and shakka’s, etc. Just how would a musician/composer go about making a living in the 20 teens? Let’s see what the “experts” have to say..hopefully more than the usual viral marketing blather that seems to have spread over the net like so much..viral marketing.

Personally, I think as Andy sez above ..it’s different horses for different courses..but one thing I know is if you call yourself a musician, you better be prepared to go out and play music for people.

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